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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2010, 02:05 PM
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once a car is mocked up the hood is the first thing to work with. everything else aligns to the hood. this is true with any car with a solid cowl.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2010, 02:21 PM
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Thanks. i went threw this before with a friend. He was telling me about the same thing. When i bought the car it was resting on 2x4's. There was no front fenders. The Mustang II front is from a Mustang II. I hope it is in right. I have been doing the work by myself, and I have never done this before. Everything is a learning process. The body was finally finished this Spring. Shims on one side, but fewer on the other. It is like the body was twisted one way, and the frame the other. From now on I have to compinsate for what I have. So far it is working. I never lowered the radiator. I saw alot that did. I have a PRC aluminum radiator for a 37 Ford. There were no mounts for the radiator. I had to by some used ones for it. One of the bolt holes was removed from each side, so there is no mounting spot for the front inner fender brace. Right now I have the front of the inner fender up about 1 1/4" up because things wouldn't aline right. I see now that the front has to go down, and the lower part of the grill has to go foward. I really can't lay the radiator over much more. The fan is about 3/4" away from the radiator. The motor mounts that were put in the car by the owner before me had set the motor mounts back 9". Lets just say that it took me two trys at making a new firewall. Shine told me how to fix the door openings by using a 2x4 and some pressure to force the opening to where it should be. See the body was off the frame and moved around alot with a forklift truck. No braces were welded in place to keep the body straight. The rolling frame was also draged around the guys property using the same manner. The rubber pads from Bob Drake are under the body between it and the frame. All bolts are in execpt for the two in the rear. The hood came with the car. The grill was junk. There were no front fenders. Those came from a 37 Fordor. The grill I have for it now came from ebay. I heard that it may have been made in China. i thought it was original, but after looking at it.. There are no holes for the trim. The holes in the body for mounting the fenders were gone. He welded them up. he was going to make a Rat Rod ( Boy I hate that name) out of it.
Should I have started with a new frame from TCI?? I guess so, but I had no clue.. I do now though.. I guess I will just have to sit down again and stare at it and try and figure out what is wrong.. Oh, I do have pictures of most of what I had to do to it, along with the pictures of it from the start. Only pictures I don't have is when I had to raise, and lower the body on and off the frame. Al
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2010, 07:12 PM
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The front fenders are the same on all 37s. Not having the holes in the lower part of the cowl is a bummer, but not too big a deal if your fenders have the holes, you can mark the spots on the cowl when you bolt the fenders to the running board. You have a challenge on locating the front vertical location of the fender if you do not have the holes in the grill shell. You will have to make an educated guess by following the line of the inner fender when it is bolted to the frame. I have built several of these old Fords and I still sweat bullets getting them to line up. Usually the inner fenders are buggered so bad you can spend hours getting them halfway into decent shape. Only about an inch at the top needs to be "paint grade", but the rest needs to be decent to get the fitment we all strive for. A friend of mine has a 37 coupe so I will pay him a visit in the next few days and get some ideals and maybe some pictures as to what you are building toward.

Trees
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2010, 07:34 PM
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Thanks.. My inner fenders were pretty good. One was really dented in the front, and the top edge on both were pretty wavy. As of right now. I can't bolt the running boards to the frame. The frame was boxed from the inside, and all of the holes in the frame were filled. Another ebay find. I got both boards for under $100. One is original. The other is after market. I will line it up and shoot some holes threw the frame and mount them. I just have them now bolted to the fenders only. The brackets are sitting about 2" out. Should I have the boards on first?? Then mount the fenders??
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2010, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Fenders can be quite different as well. Before you panic you need to get under there with a measuring tape and find out exactly what is off, is the suspension over? Is the frame over in the front? Or is the lip of the fender different?
The little "skirt" at the rear of the wheel well could be bent in or out on one side (or in on one side and out on the other) creating this problem. You don't say exactly where on the lip it is off, but this is a VERY common area to be bent.

Just take some time and determine what exactly is off. You can make a "plum-bob" set up by hanging a string with a weight from it off a few key points under the car and mark off a center line on your garage floor and using that center line see what is off. A very large square going up to the fender lip can also tell you a lot. Remove the wheels and set it on jack stands or blocks of wood under the axle or control arms so it is sitting at "ride height" and put this square on the floor and up to the fender. Then measure from the square over to the frame. Do this at the EXACT same spot on both sides and see where you are.

Brian
WHAT????? using a tape measure and a piece of string to find the center line??????Then measure from the center to the rail on both sides... That sounds so simple ... You dont need a 10,000 .00 laser measuring system??? I suppose your gonna tell us it can be done in your driveway next.....sounds like something I've heard before...LOL...
Anyways as said previously all these old cars (and even most newer ones)have been wreaked quite a few times and usually have multiple frame problems ...so start with the center line using the jig holes for reference. extensive shimming is a clear sign somethings wrong...it might be simple but it might not. keep in mind a frame can be "racked" and still be center,making X measurements will help with that.just like you would square up a box.
I always found that putting a centerline on the body and one ona frame is a big time saver but there are those that say just drop the body on the frame and bolt it down an inch out of square isnt a big deal ...For me the piece of mind knowing the body is square to the frame saves a lot of time when you get to the front end and start wondering why things dont line up the time you waste shimming and scratching your head is a lot more than running a piece of string from one end to the other...
You would be surprised what some people can do with a piece of string and a tape measure...
Start at the beginning when trouble shooting...
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2010, 07:40 AM
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first off al put some cardboard on both sides of the radiator. forget the fender sides and work with the hood , grille and side panels. hood first, grille to hood then the side panels. there is no adjustment to the body/frame .
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2010, 07:42 AM
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Pause! Take a deep breath! Hold it! Exhale! "You are in a heap of trouble here, boy" Boxed frame and the holes have been filled? Now you really have a challenge. Need more info. Is this an original frame that has been unknowingly butchered or is it some ones attempt at making their own frame? If it is original, the boxing (botched) job needs to be removed to try to find the running board mount holes that have been filled so you can drill them out. Hopefully the body mounting bolt holes are still in the top of the frame. If not you will have to locate them and drill them out as well. Remember the steps 1. Body on first 2. Mount running boards 3. Install rear fender (it bolts to body, frame and running board) 4. Install radiator 5. Install inner front fenders. 6. Install grill shell 6. Install front fender brace (very loosely) 7. Install front fender.

My last build, a 37 Ford Pickup was built on an after market frame that was built from square and rectangular tubing. The body and bed mounting holes were pre drilled and tapped. No holes were drilled on the sides of the frame for fenders, fender braces, inner fenders, and running boards. Fortunately, I had access to the original frame from which to measure and locate the holes, because I used after market fiberglass fenders and running boards which had no holes at all. I had to fabricate the running board braces and drilled the holes in them. After the running boards were installed, I drilled and tapped the frame rail to fit the pattern of the braces.

Don't get discouraged. There is plenty of expertise on this board that will offer some good tips on skinning this cat. You just have to make sure the cat gets skinned!!

Trees
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2010, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trees
Pause! Take a deep breath! Hold it! Exhale! "You are in a heap of trouble here, boy" Boxed frame and the holes have been filled? Now you really have a challenge. Need more info.

Trees
That is what I was thinking, sure, for a pro we see where it is off pretty easy but for a newbe, I say find the center line on the frame and find out if it's straight first! Something isn't adding up here, you need to be assured that the frame and suspension components are straight. Now, of course if the sheetmetal seems to move where it should and everything looks good, it could be THAT easy. But if it doesn't want to, if there are any problems getting that rad and grille over, then measure that darn frame out!

Brian
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2010, 10:43 AM
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I talked with a guy that has a 37 Tudor. H used butcher paper and taped it to the hole I have on the side of the original frame I have. He "X"ed the holes for the running boards. I drilled the holes this morning. The holes in the boards now line up with the holes I drilled.
Would it work to put a framing square up against the edge of the spindle and measure across to the frame on both sides to see if the front suspension is even?? Looking closer from the front. The holes for the bumper brackets don't line up. I have some frontend sheet metal to shift around.. Al
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:10 AM
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there are parts of a car that can not be adjusted. the cowl being one of them. the hood aligns to it as do the hood sides , everything else aligns to them , this is done by tilting the grill from side to side and pushing it out or drawing it in. this is getting way more complicated than it has to be. same thing happened when al was trying to fix the door opening.

dont measure to hanging parts for anything. use the upper shock mount hole.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:20 AM
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Thanks. Let me re read this all over and give it a try and see what happens.. Al
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:24 PM
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Shine, I have a lot of respect for your experience and ability but I do not agree that the cowl is fixed. It moves up and down, side to side, fore and aft and the top will move right and left when one side of the cowl (body) is shimmed up or down. Though we are talking small movements, they make big differences in hood/cowl/grill shell/side panel alignments(gaps). Also, the inner fenders bolt to the frame and the radiator/grill shell bolts to the inner fenders. They are integral to the overall alignment.

Trees
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2010, 02:04 PM
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the only shimming done to the cowl is to align the doors. the hood and hood sides still have to match it. there is no adjustment in the cowl as far as fitting the hood or front sheet metal.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2010, 04:11 PM
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I am pulling the front fenders off, and I will strip it down to the inner fenders, grill, and hood. As soon as they line up. Should i have the running boards bolted on before putting the fenders back on??
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