sonic test - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 06:45 AM
ss396si's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ny
Age: 36
Posts: 251
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sonic test

Is it necessary to have a block sonic tested before building a 350 street motor? My target is 350-400hp and torque?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:12 AM
BOBCRMAN@aol.com's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Holly, michigan
Posts: 8,108
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 24
Thanked 263 Times in 247 Posts
Depends on the intended bore oversize. Check the block. Is the cam bearing bore well centered in the machined surface of the casting? If not, I would have block checked on anything over .040"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:14 AM
ss396si's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ny
Age: 36
Posts: 251
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I plan on pulling a motor from a junkyard, changing the heads and cam
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:35 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hopewell, Va
Age: 62
Posts: 1,186
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 117 Times in 113 Posts
sonic test

If it were me and I had a 3970010 350 block that is a standard bore that needed to be bored .030 or .040 I would not have the sonic test done. Now if the block has been bored and I needed to have it bored again I would have it done. If I had a standard bore block and wanted it bored .060 I would have the test done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 07:43 AM
ss396si's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ny
Age: 36
Posts: 251
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
If it were me and I had a 3970010 350 block that is a standard bore that needed to be bored .030 or .040 I would not have the sonic test done. Now if the block has been bored and I needed to have it bored again I would have it done. If I had a standard bore block and wanted it bored .060 I would have the test done.
Now I have a 350 with that casting number. Your saying with a standard bore I dont have to sonic test, I can achieve those numbers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:05 AM
LATECH's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 

Last journal entry: Motor - vator
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,207
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 202
Thanked 256 Times in 238 Posts
Reason he said that is he knows well enough how thick a standard 010 block is. A standard bore going to .030-.040 is safe as the thickness in the block as produced was sufficient back then to provide material for an overbore without any guess work involved.Older blocks tend to be heavier or "overbuilt" as you might say.
With a block thats allready bored, its best to know if it is thick enough to take another overbore, for the horsepower rating it will be built to, and for the material to be sufficient for heat transfer/absorption so to promote good cooling.
Newer blocks are lighter and have less material due to that, so sonic testing is a good idea to ensure no problems will arise.
__________________
Fact is stranger than Fiction
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:37 AM
CNC BLOCKS NE's Avatar
CNC Blocks Northeast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORTHEAST
Age: 54
Posts: 1,433
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
(1) I have bought brand new blocks from GM that did not pass a sonic test.

(2) Don't go by core shirt that does not work either as I have seen many block with zeor core shift and fail a sonic test and on the other hand I have seen block with alot of core shift pass a sonic test.

(3) The cylinders on the older blocks are no thicker then the newer blocks and actually the newer blocks befre made in Mexico were beter because of better technolog of casting and better equipment.

(4) I have at least 15 block where one cylinder failed a sonic test make the block junk for a performance build.

(5) ********************

(6) On non siamese castings like 350 block the thin part of the cylinders are the wrist pin side.

(7) Take from someone who sonic tests every OEM that comes through the door have it sonic tested before anything is done as it does not have to be cleaned to do this task. I have about 45 blocks in storage that have failed a sonic test.

A few years ago I bought 6 blocks and out of all of them only 2 pased a sonic test for a performance build.

Last edited by LATECH; 09-30-2012 at 10:11 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:54 AM
Banned User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2011
Location: N.E.
Posts: 385
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Please discuss further:

1) The quality of mexiblocks.

2) Sonic testing in further detail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:56 AM
BOBCRMAN@aol.com's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Holly, michigan
Posts: 8,108
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 24
Thanked 263 Times in 247 Posts
We are talking a 350-400 hp engine here. Plus no oversize stated. A very common situation.

Yes, weak cylinder walls can be found in production blocks and old blocks. I have had new blocks sonic checked and still unusable from sand/air inclusions (one a mexican block from Summit). Just had a 283 from an old boat checked and it was junk from massive corrosion in water side of cylinder walls .

But, for the average guy building a 350 street engine. I will not insist on sonic check.. If I did. I would have been out of business 45 years ago..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 10:41 AM
LATECH's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 

Last journal entry: Motor - vator
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,207
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 202
Thanked 256 Times in 238 Posts
I had my 65 389 bored from 4.0625 to 4.120. I did some research and found that these old blocks can be bored pretty far. I felt comfortable going .0575 with mine, as I asked a very reputable Pontiac builder before attempting it. I used forged sealed power 400 pistons .5140 rods.
When in doubt...get it tested.
__________________
Fact is stranger than Fiction
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 10:55 AM
Member
 

Last journal entry: was hoping for better than this
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 265
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts
I've had sonic tested blocks blow the webbing onto the track,through the pan.. and had a 50 junker run 3 seasons on spray...
it's the luck of the draw..
even when some blocks don't pass the test.. it's not that a 13 to 1 n/a engine will have the pressure build to blow a whole in the wall..
detonation does that..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 11:21 AM
CNC BLOCKS NE's Avatar
CNC Blocks Northeast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORTHEAST
Age: 54
Posts: 1,433
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Furgal View Post
I've had sonic tested blocks blow the webbing onto the track,through the pan.. and had a 50 junker run 3 seasons on spray...
it's the luck of the draw..
even when some blocks don't pass the test.. it's not that a 13 to 1 n/a engine will have the pressure build to blow a whole in the wall..
detonation does that..

At finish size I look for minimum of .160 on the skirt sides and wrist pin side I look for a minimum of .100 at finish is size.

I have seen guys with stock builds crack the wall of a cylinder and I doubt it was 13:01

Do a search!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 11:31 AM
CNC BLOCKS NE's Avatar
CNC Blocks Northeast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORTHEAST
Age: 54
Posts: 1,433
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCRMAN@aol.com View Post
We are talking a 350-400 hp engine here. Plus no oversize stated. A very common situation.

Yes, weak cylinder walls can be found in production blocks and old blocks. I have had new blocks sonic checked and still unusable from sand/air inclusions (one a mexican block from Summit). Just had a 283 from an old boat checked and it was junk from massive corrosion in water side of cylinder walls .

But, for the average guy building a 350 street engine. I will not insist on sonic check.. If I did. I would have been out of business 45 years ago..
WOW I have been sonic testing for 30 plus years now and still in business What are you doing wrong ?????????

It only costs 40.00 and about 10 minuts to do but guys don't mind spending 40.00 to find out they have a good piece to start with. 99% of the engines I build are performance only.

I have two 400 blocks here that are less then .125 and one cylinder per block and one guy was guessing say it was good because of core shift WRONG.

I sonic test for alot of shops in my area before they start a build cause they don't want to see any problems.

How does a sonic test find a sand inclusion ???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 11:44 AM
CNC BLOCKS NE's Avatar
CNC Blocks Northeast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORTHEAST
Age: 54
Posts: 1,433
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by against all odds View Post
Please discuss further:

1) The quality of mexiblocks.

2) Sonic testing in further detail.
The quality of Mexican block is not as good as the ones I bought out of the Tanawanda plant in NY. I am talking about machine work like cylinder bore placement, lifter bore placement and cam tunnel placement and deck heights ETC.

I CNC machine my blocks and every block that goes through my machine goes through a probing cycle to check for cylinder bore placement, bore size, and deck heights before I start which also tells me the quality of the work the was done by the manufacturer.

I have seen cam tunnels off .016 and cylinders off .035 from intake to exhaust and from front to rear never seems that bad.

I have seen crates in circle track racing 355 horse under 10:01 break a cylinder wall and those are 355 horse engine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:10 PM
ss396si's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ny
Age: 36
Posts: 251
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you all for the details on my block. So it looks like I don't need to have a sonic test done. I want a reliable street engine 350-400hp and torque.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sonic booms from sbc 350? brian400ex Engine 25 03-17-2010 10:34 AM
Accel Turbo-sonic info upstand2 Engine 7 11-15-2009 07:21 PM
Offenhauser Port O Sonic intake manifold monzter Engine 2 08-03-2008 04:46 AM
NHRA chassis tech-sonic weld tests brian12c General Rodding Tech 4 04-11-2007 07:56 AM
Port-O-Sonic For An FE? 9.8sec. Hemi General Rodding Tech 4 05-01-2003 03:37 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.