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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 07:02 AM
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A good unit to try would be one of the Miller "autoset" welders for a starting welder. Just dial in the wire size and metal gage and pull the trigger. I started with a 110 volt unit and used it for sheet metal that it was designed for with no problems. Since moving up to the 220 v autoset unit I also use it for thicker metal but when it comes to raw strength needed I go back in time and use a "stick arc " welder. I also use a Tig for strength and need for great appearance but that's not in this discussion.
For a test take 2 pieces of 6x6 -1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 and weld them in a T shape to the best of your skill, Now bend them over the weld and look at the brake- Also if you really want to get technical cut across the T and polish the cut and bead and you'll see the penetration. also try pre-heating the pieces before welding and compare the welds.
You can make up your own mind about what you would trust here and where it'll break. We all need to do this with our current weld machine and if we get a new one to test its limits.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyroushkolb
A good unit to try would be one of the Miller "autoset" welders for a starting welder. Just dial in the wire size and metal gage and pull the trigger. I started with a 110 volt unit and used it for sheet metal that it was designed for with no problems. Since moving up to the 220 v autoset unit I also use it for thicker metal but when it comes to raw strength needed I go back in time and use a "stick arc " welder. I also use a Tig for strength and need for great appearance but that's not in this discussion.
For a test take 2 pieces of 6x6 -1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 and weld them in a T shape to the best of your skill, Now bend them over the weld and look at the brake- Also if you really want to get technical cut across the T and polish the cut and bead and you'll see the penetration. also try pre-heating the pieces before welding and compare the welds.
You can make up your own mind about what you would trust here and where it'll break. We all need to do this with our current weld machine and if we get a new one to test its limits.
very true...but that's the stuff they teach in welding classes and other cool stuff like differnt types of welding and cutting and applications for each type in pipe fitting /welding coarse they teach every kind of welding even tig and flux core...highly recomended.. I welded for 25 years and thought I was a welder till I took that corse now I know I'll never be a welder but I can weld pretty darn good stanless ,cast iron, aluminum even wood...
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyroushkolb
For a test take 2 pieces of 6x6 -1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 and weld them in a T shape to the best of your skill, Now bend them over the weld and look at the brake- Also if you really want to get technical cut across the T and polish the cut and bead and you'll see the penetration. also try pre-heating the pieces before welding and compare the welds.
You can make up your own mind about what you would trust here and where it'll break. We all need to do this with our current weld machine and if we get a new one to test its limits.
I took all them test, About 25 years ago,When I was getting certified...
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:53 AM
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dang randy ,25yrs ago?did they even have migs when you started welding? I'll bet some of those old timers hated them when they came out and wouldnt put down the gas torch for nothing....I remember when I started gas welding I thought I could build anything, the sky's the limit,some of the repairs I did back then make my skin crawl,thinking about it now.but I was ready to build the 6 trillion dollar man back when I started too...funny,how much more I knew when I was young and dumb...wait a minute certified 25yrs ago that means you forgot more than you'll ever know??? those welders on the alaskan pipeline sure knew all about pre heating one bad weld and thier screwed...

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Old 08-23-2009, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
...I remember when I started gas welding I thought I could build anything,some of the repairs I did back then make my skin crawl...


Actually a properly done gas weld is about as good as it gets, even rivaling a TIG but of course it is nowhere near as convenient as TIG and becomes increasingly difficult as the metal increases in thickness. I think gas welding probably got a bad rap from all those coat-hanger welds but using a real welding rod and the right technique a good gas weld is top notch!
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
dang randy ,25yrs ago?did they even have migs when you started welding? I'll bet some of those old timers hated them when they came out and wouldnt put down the gas torch for nothing....I remember when I started gas welding I thought I could build anything, the sky's the limit,some of the repairs I did back then make my skin crawl,thinking about it now.but I was ready to build the 6 trillion dollar man back when I started too...funny,how much more I knew when I was young and dumb...wait a minute certified 25yrs ago that means you forgot more than you'll ever know??? those welders on the alaskan pipeline sure knew all about pre heating one bad weld and thier screwed...

I worked in a ship yard most of my life..I had to get certified to weld a lot of the X-ray pipe..Out of about 5000 men in the yard,There were only two of us that where aloud to do the 4'' stainless anchor winch lines..They are one of the most important lines on the boat to do,and all had to be x-rayed..We built a lot of boats for the navy. And a lot of the big offshore supply boat's and some tankers and so on..The machine's I took a lot of my test on,Wasn't these little machine's you get from Lowe's.. I was able to get Certified in ''almost'' everything that can be welded... And later move into his fab shop, And started building a lot of stuff out of Alum..and stainless... That's when I really had it made..I had to build all kind of cool things,Like bar-B-Q pit's..And deer feeders..and so on..It's funny what rich people want you to build, But I was having fun.. The company that I worked for, is one of the biggest off shore boat company's in the world,You may see his boat's on TV..He lease's them out to the navy and a lot of other people..
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Actually a properly done gas weld is about as good as it gets, even rivaling a TIG but of course it is nowhere near as convenient as TIG and becomes increasingly difficult as the metal increases in thickness. I think gas welding probably got a bad rap from all those coat-hanger welds but using a real welding rod and the right technique a good gas weld is top notch!
HaHa,key word "properly" I had a couple bays behind a muffler shop years ago the guy could gas an exhaust system in no time with absolutly no leaks he tried and tried to teach me but I never couldget the top half and every time I got the bottom just about right I'd burn through..he finally gave up and told me I could barely light a good fart,I dont even know how many 1/4s I ruined.The mig saved from a life in electronics.thank god !! old red can you really gas weld sheet metal?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 12:18 PM
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one custom curtain rod with curley Q's....800.00 ea. but the rich guy didnt have (cents)enough to pay a carpenter 50.00 to install,repair holes in wall and repaint plus hang curtain rod again 1500.00 total2300.00 ...LOL...I wonder if he learned to read a tape and level? My welding instructor is also a well known artist around Ga..
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
can you really gas weld sheet metal?

Sure and there are still some people around who really prefer gas welding for body work. There was one fella in the body/paint section here a couple of years ago, I can't recall who, that was introduced to this old time way of doing body work who said that he planed to do it that way from then on. It's not as hard as it seems and the weld bead is MUCH more workable than the harder MIG weld bead so any warpage is easily worked out. Probably for all-around body shop work the MIG is a better choice but I can understand why some people prefer to gas weld and I do it myself sometimes, I welded a patch in a 65 Mustang radiator support recently and used a torch because the weld was easier to work. If, as in the case of this radiator support, both sides of the repair is going to be visible then the torch weld has a clear advantage. Because both sides can be seen body filler can't be used and the weld bead has to be hammer/dolly worked until it is invisible so the torch weld and it's much more workable bead is the best choice.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 02:22 PM
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I coulndnt do it,but the muffler guy sure made it look ez,I guess thats why it was so frustrating,but we did come to a compromise he wouldn't put bondo on his car, I was restoring and I would never again weld another exhaust pipe,it worked out well.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 06:21 PM
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Thanks for all the info guys! I'm not planning on welding frames any time soon anyway, but this has been very informative for me. I'll get lots of practice on my 110v machine with sheetmetal and what not. By then, years will have gone on and I can maybe justify the purchase of a 220v mig. Then again, the old Lincoln 225 arc machine has been around for a long time and I've seen some heavy equipment welded with it. So, I'll have to get some practice in on that also.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2009, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by k.c.
What would be smallest amperage Mig welder for the garage? Boxing frames, brackets, etc. I don't wanna spend a lot a $$$, but I only wanna buy one.
Buy a miller 180. Great welder. I have the miller 252, and love it. Plus miller just makes kick *** welders.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2009, 02:58 PM
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Miller makes Hobart also.
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Old 08-28-2009, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 1meancuda
Miller makes Hobart also.

Ok, here we go again!

Miller does NOT make Hobart! This is a very, very common "urban legend" but it simply is not true. This story, and sometimes it is even told the other way around, got started a few years back when ITW bought the Hobart welder line. ITW also owns Miller so ITW is the parent company of both Hobart and Miller but the two companies are separate entities and neither owns the other. They are aimed at two different markets and some of the smaller machines even share a few common parts, mostly "off the shelf" items that can be found in other machines.


ITW's warranty for Hobart and Miller is handled by Hobart/Miller electric Mfg. Appleton Wisconsin which would seem kind of strange if Miller did indeed own Hobart! A guy pointed this out (the Hobart name being first) a couple of years ago in an effort to prove that Hobart actually owns Miller which of course is not true either.

Last edited by oldred; 08-28-2009 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 08-28-2009, 04:33 PM
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Call it what you want. I know a guy that used to work for Miller and he had mentioned that ITW bought Hobart a while back, mainly for the rights to their wire. We got talking about it mainly because when I got my Hobart 140, the gun has "MILLER" molded into it. He didn't know for sure, but thought that some of the smaller 110v units were run down the same assembly lines or at least some of the sub assemblies.
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