speed pro forged pistons? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:14 AM
Bye Jerks
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: nowhere
Posts: 101
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
You'd be best to run two separate fuel systems.

I would install a small fuel cell under hood, along with a fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator.
for the nitrous system. Fill this fuel cell with 110+ octane unleaded race gas.
A carter P4594 pump and 3/8" fuel line is plenty for this.
Another Carter P4594 at the back of the car will support the engines fuel needs
run the engine on 92+ octane premimum and the nitrous on 110.

Very simple. and you will have it covered. get a fuel pressure gauge that reads in 1/4 lbs accuratly
You will find this very effective in fine tuning the nitrous system.

Most people run a good single pump, a regulator and a splitter with a gauge to monitor the pressure. No need for 2 different fuels, just run race gas when you race.

Having said that, I do agree with everything you said. Your idea would certainly work fine, and I was thinking about doing a setup like this on my truck. I am running a mechanical 6psi fuel pump, and I am not sure it would properly feed my carb AND my nitrous plate together.
I believe I would have a pressure drop, and my nitrous system needs to maintain 5-6psi while spraying.

The 3 things that kill a nitrous engine are: lean fuel ratio, too much ignition timing, running fuel that does not have the proper octane rating.
( also safe to go with a colder rated spark plug above 150 shot )

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:20 AM
Bye Jerks
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: nowhere
Posts: 101
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottlefed55gasser View Post
Not yet, it's up in the air, I have a 400 sbc also its a toss up between the two either or need pistons, I just feel the 400 will cost more.... I have pistons for the 400 but the cr is way way too high
2 things I don't like about the 400sbc are:

1. Siamese cylinders and steam ports
2. Short rods.

#2 is why you always see people turning a 400 into a 377 or 383.
Destroke it, and you can run 6.0" rods with the right piston set.
( I'm a big fan of LONG connecting rods. )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 01:35 AM
1Gary's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 383 dyno sym
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Roch,NY
Age: 67
Posts: 1,539
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 201
Thanked 156 Times in 142 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
This is not true. On a drag car this is the preferred location for the fuel cell.
It is much safer under hood.
As long as it is mounted and plumbed correctly, it is fine and will pass track tech.
Be sure that the length of flexible hose that runs from the firewall to the engine
for the nitrous system is good braided steel line.
Small 1 gallon to 3 gallon upright style fuel cells that mount underhood are readily available.
Thats what they are for.

If you look, at the track you will find many drag cars with the fuel cell and fuel system all underhood
whether a nitrous car or not. Ther are many advantages to having the fuel cell and pump mounted under hood,
including safety. Including the fact that the volume of fuel onboard is much less.
Having the fuel cell mounted close to the engine negates the need for high fuel pressure.
5 to 7psi for the carb is just fine and 5 to 8 psi is fine for the nitrous system with a adjustable regulator.
The nitrous fuel system response and pressure regulation is much more consistant.
Yeah but.............



Opps!!!.

The above aside,not real keen on having engine heat confined to the engine compartment heating the fuel.Don't matter that much with a EFI system,but with carbs it does.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 03:05 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
My goal was a 10:2:1, isky flat tappet 5.7 rod 400, I have the rods and pistons. But the pistons are hyper and retarded high comp ratio.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:11 AM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,330
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 132
Thanked 312 Times in 290 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
This is not true. On a drag car this is the preferred location for the fuel cell.
It is much safer under hood.
As long as it is mounted and plumbed correctly, it is fine and will pass track tech.
Be sure that the length of flexible hose that runs from the firewall to the engine
for the nitrous system is good braided steel line.
Small 1 gallon to 3 gallon upright style fuel cells that mount underhood are readily available.
Thats what they are for.

If you look, at the track you will find many drag cars with the fuel cell and fuel system all underhood
whether a nitrous car or not. Ther are many advantages to having the fuel cell and pump mounted under hood,
including safety. Including the fact that the volume of fuel onboard is much less.
Having the fuel cell mounted close to the engine negates the need for high fuel pressure.
5 to 7psi for the carb is just fine and 5 to 8 psi is fine for the nitrous system with a adjustable regulator.
The nitrous fuel system response and pressure regulation is much more consistant.
I'd like to see the rule book on this.. is it all cars or tube frame/cert. cars
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:17 AM
Beenaway2long's Avatar
or Jeff, or Doc, or...
 

Last journal entry: Results of the Camaro
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Syracuse, NY-well, just North
Age: 51
Posts: 988
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
I'd like to see the rule book on this.. is it all cars or tube frame/cert. cars
Theres nothing in the rule book about it, other than running a ground wire for aux fuel cells.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:27 AM
prostreet6t9's Avatar
Differential/Driveline
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: oregon
Age: 51
Posts: 1,758
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 43 Times in 40 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenaway2long View Post
Theres nothing in the rule book about it, other than running a ground wire for aux fuel cells.
Its in the rule book.. You'd have to be creative on the mounting for a stock chassis car to meet tech.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:08 PM
prostreet6t9's Avatar
Differential/Driveline
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: oregon
Age: 51
Posts: 1,758
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 43 Times in 40 Posts

Watch Ray Commisso’s Wild, Fiery Crash At ADRL Maple Grove! | Dragzine

Granted those are cert cars and way more HP..But with way more safety gear.

Street car with Stock chassis and juice... You add the "what if" factor in.. I'd keep my fuel in the rear. There is safer ways to plump it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 01:07 PM
1Gary's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 383 dyno sym
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Roch,NY
Age: 67
Posts: 1,539
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 201
Thanked 156 Times in 142 Posts
I'm not at all about track side horror stories because they all come about at someone else's expense.The back in the day gasser gas tanks in front of the grill are in no small part the learning curve that resulted in some of the safety rules of today.

THERE ARE NO CHEAP WAYS WHEN IT COMES TO SAFETY.Do it the right safe way the first time and spend what ever it takes...................................
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 03:08 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,197
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 386 Times in 380 Posts
The fuel stays much much cooler.

Using one pump is fine for the small shots.
When you get to a 200+ shot give the nitrous sytem its own dedicated fuel system.

We are not talking about a old gasser with a fuel tank hung on the grill.

Its much safer having the small fuel sell under hood.

No sanctioned track tech will refuse this system. As long as it is mounted and plumbed correctly. You guys have never been to the track.

Been racing with nitrous for 30+ years. One of the reasons why I am able to hit stock engines with big shots without trouble is correct configuration and tuning. Haveing the fuel cell under hood which allows easy use of race gas is part of that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 03:18 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,197
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 386 Times in 380 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 632Mantis View Post
2 things I don't like about the 400sbc are:

1. Siamese cylinders and steam ports
2. Short rods.

#2 is why you always see people turning a 400 into a 377 or 383.
Destroke it, and you can run 6.0" rods with the right piston set.
( I'm a big fan of LONG connecting rods. )
none of this is true... Look at the rod stoke ratio of a Prostock engine.
5.7" rods is all yu need.

I don't even use the stream ports on my heads on my 400.
The block is plenty strong for this build.
The 400 will outperform a 350 or a 383 or a 377.

It is never better to subtract Cubic inches.
If you have a 400 block and crank, build it. With 5.7" rods.

Nitrous does not favor a long rod ratio.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 03:41 PM
1Gary's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 383 dyno sym
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Roch,NY
Age: 67
Posts: 1,539
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 201
Thanked 156 Times in 142 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
The fuel stays much much cooler.

Using one pump is fine for the small shots.
When you get to a 200+ shot give the nitrous sytem its own dedicated fuel system.

We are not talking about a old gasser with a fuel tank hung on the grill.

Its much safer having the small fuel sell under hood.

No sanctioned track tech will refuse this system. As long as it is mounted and plumbed correctly. You guys have never been to the track.

Been racing with nitrous for 30+ years. One of the reasons why I am able to hit stock engines with big shots without trouble is correct configuration and tuning. Haveing the fuel cell under hood which allows easy use of race gas is part of that.

You just can't be taught huh.You persist even when your wrong.But when your advising someone to do something that clearly is a safety risk,I can't let that go.Been racing 10 yrs longer than you,but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to logically think taking a 5 gallon jug of racing gas to refill a fuel tank under the hood by hot headers is just plain silly.Now that doesn't account for any frontal crashes either.The worst part is you advising guys who's class doesn't require a fire suit.

Now if you find this approach a acceptable risk for you,fine.But do keep it to yourself.It doesn't make sense in so many ways.I give you my word if you ever line up against us and I find it is you,I'll protest you,and your car as a safety risk refusing to race you.We will just set there until they usher you out of the track.

I want to apologize to the O/P for these off topic posts.

Last edited by 1Gary; 11-30-2012 at 03:47 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 04:58 PM
Bye Jerks
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: nowhere
Posts: 101
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
none of this is true... Look at the rod stoke ratio of a Prostock engine.
5.7" rods is all yu need.

I don't even use the stream ports on my heads on my 400.
The block is plenty strong for this build.
The 400 will outperform a 350 or a 383 or a 377.

It is never better to subtract Cubic inches.
If you have a 400 block and crank, build it. With 5.7" rods.

Nitrous does not favor a long rod ratio.
I disagree with everything you said here.

The shorter rod in the Pro Stock engine lets them run a shorter deck. This gives them a better intake manifold to intake port alignment which increases HP. That's why they do it.

Empirical experience however, indicates that the mechanical stress is less with the longer rod length. There are two reasons for these results: The primary reason for these results is that the profile of the instantaneous velocity of the piston changes with rod length. The longer rod allows the piston to come to a stop at the top of the bore and accelerate away much more slowly than a short rod engine. This slower motion translates into a lower instantaneous velocity and hence lower stresses on the piston. Another strong effect on mechanical stress levels is the angle of the connecting rod with the bore centerline during the engine cycle. The smaller the centerline angle, the less the side loading on the cylinder wall. The longer rod will have less centerline angle for the same crank angle than the shorter rod and therefore has lower side loadings.

We can debate this stuff all day long. Doesn't matter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2012, 06:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I guess what I meant, is there a possible way to set up a old school fuel cell to work properly and safely.... Also f bird 88 on your vortec headed 400 what if u used the same combo but with ik200's? I like this form a lot more then my local one, on cc street scene everyone makes fun of gen 1 stuff there answer to any question is build a ls engine. Gee thanks dickheads lol. I've learned alot just through these past post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:13 AM
1Gary's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 383 dyno sym
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Roch,NY
Age: 67
Posts: 1,539
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 201
Thanked 156 Times in 142 Posts
When we used a OEM 400 we would fill the block 1/2 way to help stabilize the bores and bore and hone using torque plates.Even then the bores sealing ability would result in a different leak down test everytime.And we where running them in a N/A 9.90 class.No nitrous.

That was yrs ago and the good 400 cores where getting harder to find. You say you have a 400.Well sonic check it even with only a .030 over bore to check it for a possible thin wall and mag it for cracks. With the cooling design of the 400's you have to have the deck checked too.They warped pretty easily. I know all this stuff from yrs of racing them and from I worked at the Chevy engine plant in Tonn,NY as a engine tester/dyno rm tech.

Now for the safety aspect.I am ticked off by people through their own reckless behavior force the sanctioning bodies to clamp down on safety equipment to the extent where guys are complaining it them trying to create sales for the companies who sell the safety equipment. It costs my racing operation a young fortune to upkeep that now.But I am all about safety and I do see say N.H.R.A.'s point of view that if they didn't take a stand,there would be certain guys that would use Craigslist equipment as so to speak show and tell prevention. But worthless junk.Things like fire suits that where unraveling and 5 point harnesses that where torn.

When it comes to nostalgic racing rules,I know little about that. I would guess they are alittle more relaxed. I do remember the gasser tanks up front and if you remember that,they where mounted to aluminum frames by two spring straps.The idea was in a crash the tank would come out of the mount,but the reality was the tank came out of it's mounting and then smash on the ground or was drag by it not breaking free of the fuel line still attached to it.Not good things happened because of that.

The production Vortec's really only have a 170cc intake runner and that isn't enough for a big inch 400 SBC.It needs in the range of 195 to 200,230 cc's.The Bowtie Vortecs have a raised runner and manifold that is a 200cc intake runner that is going to get you close to what you need.Remember a bigger SBC can accept a bigger cam more easily. You would think so,but Elgin and PBR will grind you a custom cam fairly inexpensively if you call them telling them what you have and where you want to go with it.Make very sure when they tell you to use a valve spring,that is the one you use.

So to sum it up:

400's are useable if handle in the right way

I am a believer in long rod tech

Safety first no matter what rules or what anyone tells you

Bowtie Vortec heads with steam holes drilled

Elgin or PBR cams

Use their recommendations for valve springs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
lighter forged pistons (KB vs speed-pro) worth $325 on a chevy 454 Berres Engine 15 05-18-2011 10:57 AM
Which speed-pro pistons? Bucketwrench Engine 2 11-24-2009 09:08 PM
speed pro pistons ap72 Engine 7 10-28-2008 09:19 PM
What has happened to Speed Pro forged pistons machine shop tom Engine 12 11-11-2007 12:25 PM
speed pro pistons f8lpony Engine 3 01-14-2005 05:32 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.