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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2009, 08:01 AM
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SPI Cleaner

I have 2 coats of the SPI epoxy already on. I have done some filler work on the welds and sanded through to metal in a quite a few spots. My plan was to apply another coat of the epoxy followed by filler and then moving on to the SPI primer. I am using eversoat filler. My question is can I clean over my already applied filler and epoxy with the 710 solvent based w&g cleaner and if so how long should it sit before spraying.

Thanks everyone,

And yes I have removed all my previous coats of Nason and started fresh with the SPI products. Thanks to this forum for all the great advice

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Old 11-25-2009, 08:07 AM
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Unless you KNOW you have contaminated it somehow like oil got spilled on it, don't clean it with anything. Filler will soak up anything you apply to it and it is NOT necessary to clean it prior to primer.

Brian
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:08 AM
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Perfectly acceptable, but when you use the W&G cleaner be sure and wipe it dry, do not let it evaporate. You should also allow enough time for the remaining traces of W&G cleaner to gas off the surface before applying more epoxy.

Vince
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:18 AM
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Their would be no contamination. I just want to make sure I do it right. I am mostly following SPI's guide to a perfect paint job. They use the waterborne between coats and was more or less wondering if I should order some of that as well. Its pretty cheap insurance at this point considering everything else done. As a rookie I appreciate all advice

Thanks again
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:08 AM
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I would not use a w/g remover at this point. You said that you are a rookie that being said if you do not wipe off all of the w/g you may have rag marks lines or groups of fish eyes appear in the next coats. I would always use what the manufacturer calls for.Cheap insurance/peace of mind. Have fun
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:26 AM
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I would go ahead and get a gallon of the waterbourn from SPI.It's ALL I use after the initial cleaning and really "better" over the epoxy as well as everything else do to no reaction with solvents. Use a squirt bottle to apply these products as you waste less and get better coverage.
The waterbourn does take longer to flash off however so allowing plenty of dry time after wiping down is required especally in cooler weather.I try to do my wipe down the day before and this gives it overnight to dry out and have had no issues to date.
As for the filler area,I usually just blow it off good or "lightly" wipe over it with the damp rag from the g&wr if I have any doubt.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:31 PM
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No peeing match here please, that is not why I bring this up. I just want everyone to have a clear picture of this.

You clean a car before you work on it, you wipe down the fender before you sand and do filler work. This is from technical books and training, it is NOT practiced in real life by most bodymen. It is often skipped, but more because the bodyman doesn't think about cleanliness like the painter does. So, it is recommended, but seldom done.

After filler is applied and sanded, unless you know of a contamination I don't believe I have seen any manufacture recommend wiping down polyester filler ("bondo") with any cleaners. Is it "ok", yeah, IF you don't slop it on and you wipe it off good and you let it flash off REAL good. The filler absorbs those solvents like a sponge and it is a HUGE open door for problems.

I know of not one single person who does it on a regular basis. I have wiped filler with W&G remover myself from time to time, when I had VERY good suspicion that it had been contaminated. Other than those VERY few times, there is no way I would wipe it down.

Waiting to the next day before you prime sounds like a long time........to get contaminated.

If you wipe AROUND the filler prior to priming, sure. That sounds fine. And would usually be done by a painter prior to priming.

There are a lot of things that are not recommended by manufacturers simply because of the ODDS that it will be done incorrectly and cause problems. They say NO, when if it were well explained and done properly there would be no problem. This is no doubt one of those issues. If done in correctly, just a LITTLE in correctly where solvent is trapped in the filler and primed over, you are in for BIG failure. While at the same time, the ODDS that something is on the filler that needs to be removed is VERY little soooooooooo why take the chance?

That is how I see it, no reason for a peeing match, no reason for flaming, just another thought on the subject.

Brian
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:23 PM
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How many people after they think the filler is right wipe their hand over it to feel any imperfections, leaving minute traces of body oil on the surface. Why take the chance, wipe it down and be sure, but let it dry for a good while.

Vince
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:32 PM
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I have never, NEVER in my life, including 5 years as a paint rep going to hundreds of shops seen a failure of any kind do to "body oil", NEVER have I seen it.

Now, if you just ate an In-and-out triple cheese burger with bacon and didn't wash your hands maybe. But honestly, I have NEVER seen a failure of ANY KIND do to "body oil".

I am sure there will be someone who is going to post that they have, but I have NEVER seen it in 33 years of doing this full time 40+ hours a week.

Brian
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:48 PM
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The answer to the OP's question is REAL SIMPLE.
CALL BARRY AT SPI.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:03 PM
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You are absolutely right! However, that doesn't mean something can't be learned from what I said. Because he may say do it, doesn't change a single thing I said.

Brian
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:10 PM
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While at the same time, the ODDS that something is on the filler that needs to be removed is VERY little soooooooooo why take the chance?
Quote:
Waiting to the next day before you prime sounds like a long time........to get contaminated.
Explain THIS to me.

Your contradicting yourself.How is my "stuff" going to get "contaminated" IN the booth I'm painting in? Your going to tell me that being in a "real" body shop with God knows what flying around is NOT going to have a better chance of contamination previous to paint?
You seem to forget,THIS forum is about NON PRO'S who have a "specific" area they work in,NOT a professional body shop.
Your the one with the piss match issue here bro. You brought it up in the first place. WE were discussing a SPECIFIC product and advice,You come in and "lecture" us YOUR "expertiese" and "years" experience and blah,blah,blah.
I USE spi products as well as converse with Barry and follow HIS advice on HIS products. I'll follow his advice over yours ANYDAY. AND.
I'm done with this B.S.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:18 PM
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So if I say anything that simply EDUCATES I am pissing?

What in the hell is wrong with your guys? You want it ONE way or the highway.

I am not contradicting MYSELF, I am pointing out something YOU said that is contradicting!

YOU say that it is so important to clean it, yet it is left for a day for something to get on it?

Just like that last pissing match here, I give ADDED information and all hell breaks loose. Go back and read my post, what can anyone argue with? Is Barry going to say "Sure slather it on and spray over it before while it is still good and wet"?

No, he will say just as I am saying, giving a WARNING as to make sure it has flashed off. He certainly can't argue that everyone does it. He can't argue that those who don't will have catastrophic failures.

Come on here, I posted EDUCATIONAL information. Or maybe you want all the newbes to just "do as I say" and leave it at that?

Give me a break!

Brian
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:38 AM
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Good enough guys, lets back off a bit on this one.

Vince
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:13 AM
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Im an engine guy, everything has to be clean. So after body work, I wipe down the whole thing and blow it off and tac it before spraying.
Most of us are doing this for a hobby, have no booth and do welding,engine and paint work all in the same space. Set yourself up for success, read the tech sheets and Keep it clean.
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