spi epoxy test - Page 4 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:10 AM
jcclark's Avatar
The Penny Pincher
 

Last journal entry: Hanging Bumpers
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, Ky. U.S.A.
Age: 61
Posts: 1,854
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
,

The problem with compairing SPI to say DuPont, are many, starting with the fact that cars painted with spi are most likely babied, garaged and well cared for.
:
Man, I have to disagree with that.
I do small collision repair, like a lot of painters I know, and most of these
cars are not even washed, and never waxed.
Most of my customers cars are not cared for at all. Just the opposite.
(most of my customers are young females-enough said)
And also, like most painters I know, I've used most of the other brands.
(I used DuPont for over 10 yrs).
Believe me, I've used a lot of different brands of products over the past
35 yrs, and still do use a lot of different ones for different reasons.
But my customer cars are a real test for the products I use so I
have to do it right and use a good product. No show cars here
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:18 AM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,949
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 80
Thanked 219 Times in 206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark View Post
Man, I have to disagree with that.
I do small collision repair, like a lot of painters I know, and most of these
cars are not even washed, and never waxed.
Most of my customers cars are not cared for at all. Just the opposite.
(most of my customers are young females-enough said)
And also, like most painters I know, I've used most of the other brands.
(I used DuPont for over 10 yrs).
Believe me, I've used a lot of different brands of products over the past
35 yrs, and still do use a lot of different ones for different reasons.
But my customer cars are a real test for the products I use so I
have to do it right and use a good product. No show cars here
AND HOW MANY with spi on them are treated like above??
like zero.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:28 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 1,002
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 55
Thanked 73 Times in 64 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post

I will stay with my original statement though that sanding a primer aids in mechanical and chemical adhesion of primer to top coat.

I know this is going to sound anal...and I know it is....but, I dug up my old notes from the 80's...and in 1986 this was passed out by a CIL trainer in Edmonton, not ICI, which documented that "because the water molecule is larger than the molecules found in CIL's 2K primer, the water molecule can not penetrate today's high build catalyzed primers". Now I wish that I would have read that statement over before I posted...I would have questioned the fact that water can't penetrate high build primers because as we now know, they can.

So, again I thank you for clarifying the water molecule thing, the last thing I want to do is pass on information that isn't correct.

Ray
I still don't know that it's an accurate statement to say there's a physical and chemical bond in sanding a primer, especially after the primer's cured. That really sounds like bucket chemistry there.

CIL obviously did not have a chemist on staff in making their comment, and if they did, I'm sure the poor guy probably quit because nobody listened to him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:36 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 1,002
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 55
Thanked 73 Times in 64 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Although I didn't fully grasp everything that you posted, I did understand a fair amount and what I understood was that because water (being a solvent) has different properties, the chain reaction of water on primer is different than say the chain reaction of reducer on primer, making primer more water proof than reducer.


Ray
well, still not exactly. Think about this: we know 2k primers are definitely not waterproof; water penetrates right through them. However, water does not dissolve them. Primers are not water soluble is the difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:46 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 610 Times in 554 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
I still don't know that it's an accurate statement to say there's a physical and chemical bond in sanding a primer, especially after the primer's cured. That really sounds like bucket chemistry there.

CIL obviously did not have a chemist on staff in making their comment, and if they did, I'm sure the poor guy probably quit because nobody listened to him.
Well, first off, I'm sure that CIL did have Chemist's, maybe not in the training center but they have chemists...unfortunately the Fellow that made the statement made it in error. He was a very well respected trainer, a mentor to many people including myself (that's why I kept everything I ever got from him). I'm not going to judge the mans worth on one misstatement, who knows where he got his information from. The guy didn't quit, he died. I am however glad that you corrected it, so I don't continue to make the same error.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #51 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:49 AM
jcclark's Avatar
The Penny Pincher
 

Last journal entry: Hanging Bumpers
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, Ky. U.S.A.
Age: 61
Posts: 1,854
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
AND HOW MANY with spi on them are treated like above??
like zero.
????What do you mean???
Every car I do has SPI on them.
SPI is the only clear and epoxy I have used in the last several years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #52 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:07 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: less than 6 hrs away
Posts: 6
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
,

The problem with compairing SPI to say DuPont, are many, starting with the fact that cars painted with spi are most likely babied, garaged and well cared for.
I don't know how it hold up in the "REAL WORLD" a fair weather daily driver that sits outside 95% of the time. rock chips and other crap a car that is used more than it sits ,will get.
THIS is important as the lawn chair car guys are loosing footing to those that build and DRIVE the crap out of their junk.
has anyone got a vehicle that was painted 8 years ago that had to deal with bird crap,rock chips, highway sandblasting(from sand in the wind), rain(and not wiped off within hours), and the sun most of that time..
and some might think these are not important, they also own trailor queens that are also garage queens, that then cross an auction block as new build.. the rest of us that drive the wheels off our junk ,it is very ,very important!!!.. KOK is a great paint for the show car and looks killer, but as far as holding up to mother nature it's a big fat fail.
but it wasn't made for that, it was the show car paint.
I know how ppg/DuPont/nason,basf,etc will hold up .
and this means more to me than if I have to wetsand out a little orange peel.

and with paint jobs coming in at 5-10g's or more it better dam well stand up to the things mother nature and use bring to the table, if that means I'm a motel6 guy so be it.. the motel 6 guy, SHINE is a person that likes only having to do something ONCE. and it lasting . is that a BAD thing? is questioning or asking questions a bad thing? or is it. I said so, don't question me
It appears you just want to piss and argue, surely you are smart enough to figure out a company with sales as large as SPI is selling far more product to body shops then restoration shops or forum users.

When a member tells you they paint d/d's and you still want to argue.
Finally, I would not bash any product until I had used it and had bad results not due to my ineptness, but failure do to product itself.

IF you were conduct a google search it would quickly come up with any negative posts about SPI, wonder why there aren't any? Maybe you think Barry is paying Google to not post anything but positive about him ??? Get real , either try SPI or quit guessing how over rated it is and move on .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:19 AM
jcclark's Avatar
The Penny Pincher
 

Last journal entry: Hanging Bumpers
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, Ky. U.S.A.
Age: 61
Posts: 1,854
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Consider this.
My good friend and "fishing buddy" owns a "Stories" autobody
supply shop right here in my area.
If I am going to buy something, I try to buy from him.
I will always try to support my local guy first anyway.
So for me to buy SPI clear and epoxy means I have to be quite
convinced I'm getting something way more than what my friend carries.
And my friends epoxy is actually cheaper to buy.
I am not a SPI brand loyal painter.
I just use what I like the best, no matter who makes it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #54 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:27 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 1,002
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 55
Thanked 73 Times in 64 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Well, first off, I'm sure that CIL did have Chemist's, maybe not in the training center but they have chemists...unfortunately the Fellow that made the statement made it in error. He was a very well respected trainer, a mentor to many people including myself (that's why I kept everything I ever got from him). I'm not going to judge the mans worth on one misstatement, who knows where he got his information from. The guy didn't quit, he died. I am however glad that you corrected it, so I don't continue to make the same error.

Ray
well I was being facetious in my statement because the original statement was so incorrect on the most elementary level. But I was thinking about it on the way into work this morning, and I think he is conflating it with porosity, which is the same thing you are conflating it with. The physical molecules composing the primer itself are not smaller than a water molecule; however if they are linked so tightly together, with an intermolecular space of say, less than an Angstrom, then that is a small pore and a water molecule would not be able to move through that. I'm sure the density of the primer comes into play as well. Water moving through pores is a physical function, not a chemical function. 2k primer is porous (as I've come to understand it) and this is why water moves through it, but doesn't dissolve it. Appropriate solvents will both move through and dissolve.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #55 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:33 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,608
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 159 Times in 130 Posts
never fails . mine's just a driver so it can look like crap and i'll redo it later.
i will never understand this . just what is the difference ????? i may fudge just a little on bodywork on my shop truck but the finish will be the same as any other car i do.
for the motel 6 guy . i have streetrods out there with 100k miles on them. i have customers with cars i painted in the early 90's and still going. spi wont stand up to daily driving . more bs. edward drives the 37 below almost daily. he delivers meals on wheels in it , goes out to eat or whatever. the blue sedan has over 100k miles on it , the black coupe was painted in 95 .

tell me this. before i switched to spi i used ppg. why no pissing and whining about all the ppg thugs ???? i can tell you why. when someone brings up some converted enamel internet junk those who know try to steer the person in the right direction . low and behold someone who used this crap gets all butt hurt and goes to whining. never mind that several tradesman with 30+ years of fighting this all agree . you see , if our job blows up we have to fix it. if your goes to crap you'll just blame someone or something else and drive it. not an option on a 150k car .

in case you didn't know all the majors make their money in collision work . not restoration . so just how much r&d money do you think they spend on longevity ? the car is repaired and likely sold after 6 months never to be seen again. rock hard , chips, like buffing concrete but done and gone in several days .

i can assure you if spi fails on me i will be on barry like ugly on an ape. but unlike those others he will actually try to figure out what happened. ppg , dupont ???? they have the same generic answer . the painter screwed up . 9 out of 10 times it is usually our fault but if you think the majors do not ship bad products you have very little experience at this. and they will not stand behind it unless you buy a large amount monthly. the diy guy is screwed .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	triple 41's.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	46.2 KB
ID:	74845   Click image for larger version

Name:	57 vette jpeg.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	102.6 KB
ID:	74847   Click image for larger version

Name:	download (2).jpg
Views:	30
Size:	84.3 KB
ID:	74848  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #56 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:37 AM
Irelands child's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Ford engine specifications Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 4,713
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 12
Thanked 147 Times in 131 Posts
Dam'!!!! I thought we discussed (read as beat to death) this in 2008/9 when I painted my '31 with SPI undercoats and clear and figured this thread was just resurrected again by a new guy and we were only having a bad flashback

Why not look in here for more 'good stuff' : SPI User Forums

Dave W
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #57 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:41 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,608
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 159 Times in 130 Posts
you are absolutely right dave . but every few years the trolls show up . they do a lot of whining but offer no proof of anything. if you dont like spi fine . offer up some facts or **** already .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:42 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 610 Times in 554 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPI Thug View Post
It appears you just want to piss and argue, surely you are smart enough to figure out a company with sales as large as SPI is selling far more product to body shops then restoration shops or forum users.

When a member tells you they paint d/d's and you still want to argue.
Finally, I would not bash any product until I had used it and had bad results not due to my ineptness, but failure do to product itself.

IF you were conduct a google search it would quickly come up with any negative posts about SPI, wonder why there aren't any? Maybe you think Barry is paying Google to not post anything but positive about him ??? Get real , either try SPI or quit guessing how over rated it is and move on .
Welcome to Hot Rodder's Forum...I see this was your first post...You will find a multitude of experienced people here, willing to help and offer advice. Being new to the forum, you may not realize that we have a new sub forum entitled "paint", seeing that you are SPI familiar, (I got that from your forum name) please post any and all threads you start regarding SPI under that heading, any and all questions will be cheerfully answered.

If not....it'll always be entertaining.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #59 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 07:04 AM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,949
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 80
Thanked 219 Times in 206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPI Thug View Post
It appears you just want to piss and argue, surely you are smart enough to figure out a company with sales as large as SPI is selling far more product to body shops then restoration shops or forum users.

When a member tells you they paint d/d's and you still want to argue.
Finally, I would not bash any product until I had used it and had bad results not due to my ineptness, but failure do to product itself.

IF you were conduct a google search it would quickly come up with any negative posts about SPI, wonder why there aren't any? Maybe you think Barry is paying Google to not post anything but positive about him ??? Get real , either try SPI or quit guessing how over rated it is and move on .
the only one that bashed was SHINe..anyone that thinks or questions , IS a motel 6 type.. belittlin' as best.. degreading as worst.
if spi is so huge, why no color coats,
I know the reason.. most paint brands only warranty if it's full system is used..
not bashing or agrue'n . the guy that paints that I replied to his post. doesn't paint spi as they don't have base color "coat" paint of a b/c-c/c system.
as far as google'n . no thanks I'd rather see a car that's got the product on it. that's 8-10 years old and in the weather.. I have YET to even come across and car up here painted with(or admitting to) it's use.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #60 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 07:06 AM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,949
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 80
Thanked 219 Times in 206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by shine View Post
you are absolutely right dave . but every few years the trolls show up . they do a lot of whining but offer no proof of anything. if you dont like spi fine . offer up some facts or **** already .
UM , YOU posted the THREAD..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
spi epoxy swvalcon Body - Exterior 14 09-24-2012 06:34 AM
spi epoxy shine Body - Exterior 18 07-11-2011 05:25 AM
Flash rust OK under epoxy? SPI epoxy primer, Transtar 6131, or PPG Shop Line? off2wildblue Body - Exterior 2 07-29-2010 08:53 PM
SPI epoxy imperialman67 Body - Exterior 9 09-05-2009 06:34 AM
SPI Epoxy Q's S10xGN Body - Exterior 7 02-04-2008 07:29 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.