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Old 08-13-2005, 03:21 PM
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Spots

I've got spots of darker color coming through the clear coat after 3 yrs of
age. These have just started about a month ago.
The car was painted more than 3 yrs ago with acrylic enamel base coat
(with hardener) and topped with urethane. It looked perfect untill now.
I can't figure out what 's causing this. It looks like the metallic is risen
up through the clear coat and darkened. But after 3 years???
The car sits outside with a cover on it most of the time.
This is a picture of the bumper where the spots are worse.
It was cleared with three coats of urethane and never buffed like
the rest of the car. Most of the areas that I sanded and buffed are ok
except the trunk lid, it has the spots too.
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Old 08-13-2005, 05:51 PM
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is that on a plastic filler ?
if it is there are different stuff to use on those

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Old 08-14-2005, 07:07 AM
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No filler on the bumper, just 2k primer, base & clear.
Everything was sanded thoroughly and it was the original factory
paint when I did it. I cured the primer a week before sanding it.
These spots are inside the clear. I wet sanded the trunk lid yesterday
with 400 paper and the spots didn't change. It looks like they're
on the surface because the shine is gone where they are, but after sanding
I believe they're deep in the clear.
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Old 08-14-2005, 07:24 AM
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Only three things can cause this after the fact.

1) Color is fading due to a very low grade clear and dark spots are not popping up but not faded yet.

2) It was sprayed this way and you just noticed (uneven)

3) Acid reaction: The use of wrong company base blender or stabilizer in some one else's basecoat. (my pick)

Now there are other things that can cause this but they will show up when paint dries. After three years the above would be your choices.
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Old 08-14-2005, 07:54 AM
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Looks like the clear is breaking down from the inside out. What brand paint and clear were applied?
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Old 08-14-2005, 10:39 AM
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I love strange ones like these to figure out. I had a similar thing happen to me once. I had a car that I "converted" an enamel formula to basecoat (listened to the paint store like a moron) and it was very transparent. It took about six or more coats to cover. It was then cleared and trapped solvents from the base under the clear. It looked fine, I mean beautiful, for about two years. At that point I moved and lost my car port. It lasted about six months and the clear had totally failed. So things can go after a few years.

First off, the cover has a lot to do with it in my opinion. How it is parked has a lot to do with it. I see the thing being parked the exact same way day after day with the sun baking down on the car cover car port or something that lets portions get some sun or more heat, day after day. I see a couple of different things as a possibility. First, that little filler had more paint applied and solvents were trapped causing the failure as these solvents work their way up thru he clear. This didn't happen on the rest of it because it was sanded and this allowed the solvents to escape. The deck lid.....well...the only thing I can think is that this is one part that is subject to more heat..or it got more paint or clear on it when it was painted for some reason.

When you look at something like this where PORTIONS of the paint fail, you MUST accept that SOMETHING was done different when the paint was applied, buffed, or where the car is stored, PERIOD. When you figure out what that difference is, you find out what caused the problem.

If you think back to when this car was done, you may remember applying more color to the deck lid, maybe you had a problem with mottling? Or, you sanded and buffed the lid real fast while the hood was sanded and left "open" to breath for a day?

The vertical surfaces failing first are a given, more sun hits them. So really the only thing you have here to question is why the deck lid, the bumper filler (both vertical) and not the hood and roof? What was/is different?

Brian
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Old 08-14-2005, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Looks like the clear is breaking down from the inside out. What brand paint and clear were applied?
That has nothing to do with it (sort of) being SOME parts failed and some didn't.

Brian
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Old 08-14-2005, 01:04 PM
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So far it's only the horizontal surfaces.
the top of the bumper, the deck lid and there is one spot on the roof.
These spots are really darker than the original paint.
What's puzzling to me is why all of a sudden after 3 yrs?
I did paint this car a little at a time taking several spraying sessions
to complete. I would let it sit out in the sun for a week before sanding and buffing. Same with the primer, like I said, I gave it longer than usual to
really dry then sanded and painted.
This is an off brand acrylic enamel by "Kirker" with the converter called
"Lazer Dry" which is made for it. The clear was a American Finishes brand,
also a cheapie. But I've used this clear for years and never had any problems with it.
I was planning on doing my next "daily driver" with the same stuff, now
I'm worried it could be the paint. I'd love to know if it was something I
could have done wrong. I feel confident that I really prepped this car right.
I took my time, sanded the original paint, and put 2k on everything.
Blocked everything with a guide coat.
The car looked so perfect untill about a month ago and now it's like
a cancer.
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Old 08-14-2005, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark
The clear was a American Finishes brand,
also a cheapie. But I've used this clear for years and never had any problems with it.
I was planning on doing my next "daily driver" with the same stuff, now
I'm worried it could be the paint.
My personal opinion is that clearcoat its not a good place to save money.

Rich
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Old 08-14-2005, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrmccabe
My personal opinion is that clearcoat its not a good place to save money.

Rich

That was a good clear 2-5 years ago, so thats not the problem.
The other may be!
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:19 PM
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"I did paint this car a little at a time taking several spraying sessions
to complete."

I think the whole mystery lies in that statment. Like I said, SOMETHING was different between all these parts. If the deck lid was painted on a different day, just a few degrees lower temp, solvent flashed at a different rate than the other parts. It could be as simple as "all the planets were aligned". Right on the edge of the reducer temp recommendation, right on the edge of flash time recommendations, vertical panels always get a little more material (human nature), this panel has been exposed to heat/sun different............

Like my car, the sides because they are not exposed to the sun may never fail. So it isn't so much the products used, but how they were used.

Now.........that isn't to say that a "better" (read that, "different") product wouldn't have reacted different to the "planets being aligned" and never fail, that is another issue. An issue that may never be known. To say "that didn't happen to me" with "X" product means nothing. The "planets being aligned" may not have been a factor so of course it didn't happen. It may never happen again!

I remember going out to customer complaint calls where the customer had a failure. I would take the product and have to abuse it beyond anyones normal "planets being aligned" to make it fail. I mean go WAY, WAY outside the tech sheet recommendations to make it happen. One time I remember I could NOT ever make it happen. How the guy pulled off a failure of that magnitude I don't know. Others were using product every day without a hitch. So, we can't blame the product, not just yet.

With this particular failure, it may be next to nothing, just the luck of the draw, "the planets were aligned". You could paint it "exactly" the same again and not have the problem, just because it was a few degrees warmer that day.

Brian
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:28 PM
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With this particular failure, it may be next to nothing, just the luck of the draw, "the planets were aligned". You could paint it "exactly" the same again and not have the problem, just because it was a few degrees warmer that day.

Brian[/QUOTE]

Rest of car will do it, there is history of the one item.
It really lasted a long time considering, so must have been a good job done.
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Old 08-14-2005, 04:34 PM
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Well I probably did do a lot of different things over 3 yrs ago,
problem is, I can't remember last month, so no way 3 yrs.
I do remember over reducing the clear for the bumper to get it to flow
better because I didn't plan on buffing it.
I do this all the time on bumpers for other peoples cars without ever having
a problem. But for customer cars I am matching their color so I use
DuPont base, not a cheapie conversion.
Back then I had a habit of putting the freshly painted panel in the sun
to cure.I don't do that anymore after getting solvent pops once.
So I keep thinking can that do it?
I may have not waited long enough between coats like I do now.
Everything I think up I keep thinking it would have had a problem sooner,
that there would be a sign of something wrong.
The metallic base of this car really glitters out in the sun, if something was different I sure would have seen it. Well maybe not.
I'm planning on selling this car so I'm sanding it thourghly, dusting on enough
base to cover the spots and reclearing. I hope I'm doing something better
this time. If it goes another 3 years I'll be happy.
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Old 08-14-2005, 10:06 PM
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Putting a newly painted part out in the sun can "cook" out solvents, but it can also kick the top hard leaving the solvents trapped under the outer film. Yeah, it's pretty hard not knowing all the facts three years later.

Brian
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