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Old 11-17-2007, 07:18 PM
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Sprayable Body Filler

Just want to pass on what I have read on different forums.

For us amateurs like myself, if the pros see a mistake here, please feel free to correct me.

I will mention three sprayable body fillers here, there are more.

1. Featherfill by evercoat

2. Slicksand by evercoat, slicksand kind of replaced featherfill as far popularity

3. Z-chrome by Clausen

Sprayable body filler is also called, Polyester Primer Surfacer.

Its a two part, Or 2k, as in two componets, it has a hardener or catalyst, or something mixed with it. Its not a single component, as in one part.

They all have a resin and talc in them, so there not waterproof, only waterproof if sealed under and over by another product.

So we have sprayable body filler, versus the body filler in a can that we call mud or bondo, that also has a hardener in a little tube that we squeeze out in a ribbon, and mix it in with a putty knife or spreader.

Why use a sprayable body filler.

If you have several dents along the side of your car, you fill them with bondo, its hard to get the panels straight by working each dent.

So we have all the dents filled and sanded, go out the next morning, and feel along the side of the car, and it still feels a little wavy.

Another thing that comes into play, you might have a little shrinkage with the bondo areas. Anyway we'll spray some 2k urethane, like maybe some k-38 or whatever you like, a couple coats, then we'll sand that off, but somewhere along the line, we will cut through the k-38 and see bondo.

So respray some more k-38 and sand again, then hopefully we won't sand through to bondo again, but its a pretty good bet we will.

This is where sprayable body filler comes into the program. We'll spray the whole side of the car, and this will be a lot thicker them the k-38 we just sprayed, gives us some working room, get a longer sanding block out, and your not going to break through to the bondo underneath as easy.

You will see the different colored bondo under the sprayable filler if you do sand through it.

Because the sprayable filler is so much thicker, you can cross hatch sand with a block to get those panels straight.

So sprayable filler is just bondo out of a spray can, only layed out more evenly on those body panels.

If you use sprayable body filler, you will need a larger nozzle for your spray gun, get the one they call for, or it could get nasty.

I use z-chrome sprayable body filler, but I'm sure some of these others are just as good or maybe better, I've only used one brand.

When your spraying it, you will need to kind of shake the spray gun around every so often, because the filler will separate in the paint cup and kind of settle to the bottom.

A little on just body filler here, or mud or bondo. We here rage or rage gold mentioned quite a bit, then you hear everglass, duraglass and metal to metal, all of these are bondo.

They all have resin and talc in them, so if it has talc in it, like metal to metal, I just went out to the shop and read it right off the can, its not waterproof like they say. None of it is if it has talc in it.

To the point here, when you put bondo on top of bare metal, there is a chance for condensation to get in between the two, thats why over the last couple of years, for the most part, you hear epoxy this and epoxy that.

Bondo over freshly ground metal will really stick, and might last forever, but cars are subject to temperature change, so why not get the extra protection of an epoxy under the bondo.

I have also read that some of these cars are on there second restoration, I'm guessing here, but if epoxy would have been used, would they have to redo these cars again.

Anyway, one way to go here.

First bare metal, then spray epoxy, then bondo, then sprayable filler, then either more epoxy or a k-38 or some two part urethane primer, should take care of the protection on a car body.

I looked at evercoats tech sheet on spraying epoxy under metal to metal, and they don't mention it, so I don't know whats going on with that, in fact I haven't looked to see if they recommend it under there other body fillers, you can read up on it yourself if you decide on evercoat products, I personnaly haven't noticed anything wrong with them, evercoat, I'm sure is as good or better then others.

Whatever product you buy, get the tech sheet from the counter guy, or have him print one out.

I mentioned everglass and duraglass.

Both of them are bondo, like rage and whatever, but these two have fiberglass mixed in it. If you have welded areas, take it to bare metal, then epoxy, then duraglas, then rage etc.

The fiberglass will hang in there better on the welded joints, so I've read.

This is all pretty basic stuff, if you want more stuff like this, let me know.

Rob
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Old 11-17-2007, 08:07 PM
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Thanks for sharing that info Rob.
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Old 11-17-2007, 08:24 PM
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That would be a good WIKI post Thank You.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:31 AM
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Thanks Henry and Carsavvycook.

Rob

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Old 11-18-2007, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carsavvycook
That would be a good WIKI post Thank You.

I agree, only thing it needs to be complete would be the cautions about pot life or examples of some sort.

Also a caution about gun tip sizes or the range that should be used.

The above going on the assumption this is written for a person to read for the first time before spraying poly primer.
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Old 11-18-2007, 08:30 AM
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thats all great information. iam redoing a 68 cougar and i have most of the body down to bare metal. iam planning on shooting it with epoxy primer , doing the bondo work and was thinking about another coat of epoxy primer.i had read somewhere about sandwiching the bondo between the 2 coats. then following up with a 2 k primer. 1 question i do have is i was planning on skim coating the body to get this thing as straight as possible , when should i do that ? between which step ? will the sprayable filler do this for me ?
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Old 11-18-2007, 01:13 PM
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Great post Rob. And from a personal perspective, very timely. My local supplier doesn't carry Slicksand or featherfill on a regular basis so I'll need to order it in. But it sure sounds like it is worth a try for those "body straighenin' blues".

One other addition you might want to make to the post has to do with "allowable thickness". Just how many coats of Slicksand would be considered too many.
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Old 11-19-2007, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robs ss

I looked at evercoats tech sheet on spraying epoxy under metal to metal, and they don't mention it, so I don't know whats going on with that, in fact I haven't looked to see if they recommend it under there other body fillers, you can read up on it yourself if you decide on evercoat products, I personnaly haven't noticed anything wrong with them, evercoat, I'm sure is as good or better then others.
Rob, You won't see many filler manufacturers listing epoxy primer as a desired undercoat simply because these products are truly designed for collision repair where time is limited (no time for epoxy). Although Evercoat recognizes the benifits of applying their polyester products over epoxy they won't suggest it in their directions for use I suppose becuase they don't want the collision tech to think it is a requirement when other filler manufacturer's don't. The U.S. collision repair industry is way behind compared to europe where this filler over epoxy proceedure is comonplace. MartinSR (Brian Martin) discussed this issue with some Evercoat Reps awhile back and they fessed up- epoxy is the best way to go, maybe he'll chime in with the details.
You do see primer manufacturer's listing their epoxy primers as suggested undercoats for bodyfillers-these are the tech sheets that need to be followed. Bob
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:57 AM
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Small world on the Internet.
Mike 85.

Pot life is a BIG concern as most WILL harden quickly,sometime as fast as 20 min. in hot weather. We discussed this at SPI forum almost to the 9th degree and going with less cat,usually half the required or less in hot weather really helps. So, For you guys new to using it,Clean your gun right after you spray or you may end up with a nice wall ornament.
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:14 AM
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A good epoxy under the filler is the best way to go, and Evercoat will admit it. One of the problems with them recommending it is WHAT epoxy? They don't want to say a blanket statement "apply epoxy primer first" because they when will be accepting responsibility for it. That would be fine, but what epoxy is being used? There may be some junk out there that they wouldn't want to accept responsibility for. They can't put a brand name of epoxy on the recommendation because they would then be alienating all the other brands and loosing sales of filler in the stores who sell the other brand epoxy.

They KNOW that the filler works over bare metal, they can warrenty it if used properly over bare metal, so that is where they stand.

Brian
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
A good epoxy under the filler is the best way to go, and Evercoat will admit it. One of the problems with them recommending it is WHAT epoxy? They don't want to say a blanket statement "apply epoxy primer first" because they when will be accepting responsibility for it. That would be fine, but what epoxy is being used? There may be some junk out there that they wouldn't want to accept responsibility for. They can't put a brand name of epoxy on the recommendation because they would then be alienating all the other brands and loosing sales of filler in the stores who sell the other brand epoxy.

They KNOW that the filler works over bare metal, they can warrenty it if used properly over bare metal, so that is where they stand.

Brian
I just emailed evercoat tonight, see if they will respond to a few questions.

The problem here is not the information, but the lack of it. You and I and the rest of us get our information off these forums and sales reps, and different sales reps don't always have the same information, or are willing to say certain things unless there positive about it, which is a good thing.

If they respond to my email I will put the information on here, then maybe we can learn a little more, I hope.

I have had good success in talking to a couple of other manufacturers, ( in house technicans ) usually the next day, and sometimes up to three days, ppg usually the same day or next working day.

Anyway, we had some good feedback from everybody here, and that was the intent, to air this sprayable filler out.


Rob

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