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Old 01-15-2007, 10:57 PM
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SSU Sticky Mess or No...

I sell paint as some of you know. I recently gave a gallon of our Single Stage Urethane and the activator to a painter to try out. I have not seen his facilities but I think there is no booth. He painted a frame and the color is black. Anyway after he painted it he complained that there was overspray everywhere and the floor was sticky for a while. He says other brands he's sprayed don't do that.

Now, I have sprayed alot of SSU. In the past 3 years it's been our brand and it does create alot more sticky overspray than base/clear or even enamels. The floor does get sticky with stuff stuck to my shoes during subsequent coats, especially with items being sprayed close to the ground. I still shoot mostly with a conventional gun but I do have a booth. But before 3 years ago I shot PPG DAU and DuPont Imron with EXACTLY the same phenomina. I remember actually having a slippery build up of DAU on my shoes after shooting a 38 Ford.

So, I contend that this is just the nature of SSU in general and not brand specific. SSU is just much stickier to spray.
So what is your opinion? Is it true that SSU in general makes a mess of the surroundings or am I just totally off?

Thanks!
Larry

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Old 01-15-2007, 11:12 PM
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I agree Larry, all the SS urethane paints I've shot were like glue on the floor, like the old enamel days. Dupont's Chroma One was always the worst-thick stuff and needed some high pressures to break it up causing more overspray than normal.
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Old 01-16-2007, 07:05 AM
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Last ssu (nason) i shot was simular. Same as a clear job. Takes awhile for it to flash off for sure.
Question as well would be the temp he's shooting in also.
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Old 01-16-2007, 07:59 AM
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It would depend a lot on how much air flow in the spray area and how much atomization he had with the gun. You could create a lot of that overspray with just a change in gun adjustment. Different paints? I don't think there is going to be a noticable difference unless there was a big VOC difference. I never thought about it, but if you were to spray a 5.0 VOC urethane and a 3.5 VOC urethane, I would have to assume there will be more sticky overspray with the 3.5? Just a hunch, like I said never thought about it before.

All I know is, spraying ANY urethane, clear, color, whatever, without a booth you ARE going to have EVERYTHING in that area covered with sticky overspray.

How about when the bottoms of your shoes are so covered with overspray and dirt and stuff that they are no longer flat on the bottoms? You have that "Rocking horse" lumpy deal going on.

Brian
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Old 01-16-2007, 01:51 PM
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Larry I spray the Valspar Omega 2k 840 SS and have never had that problem.

I do have good guns / setup correctly.

I think if your shoes and the floor are getting sticky then you need to look
at gun technique. The paint is meant to go on the car.. not the floor, not
you. Not all over the place.. lol that just too funny are you for real ?

The SSU can be difficult to spray so most folks will up the pressure.
Key to getting it to flow out is "Metal Temp" get the metal temp
up to 65 degrees and life will be good, assuming the paint is mixed / reduced correctly.

The gfg plus gun with a 1.4 tip running 26psi will work good for ssu
also the Iwata lph400-lv gun with a 1.4 tip running 16 to 20 psi will do
even better. The fan is huge on the Iwata so its the best of the two guns
IMHO.

One other thing is Dont bomb SSU on.. go slow with it. Bomb it on to reduce
orange peel and the crap will go everywhere. The Orange Peel will go away
if the metal temp is up to snuff so no need to go wild with air pressure.

X711
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Old 01-16-2007, 02:08 PM
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The last SSU I sprayed with was PPG Global. The overspray was much less sticky than the PPG SSU Omni I sprayed another vehicle with. The Omni overspray stuck to everything in my shop.
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:28 PM
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I had to shoot a big boat trailer frame years and years ago at work. All rails were sandblasting, including a ways inside, and needed to make sure I got some primer and paint shot inside the rails, not to mention crawling underneath the thing and the amount brackets and other things to get paint on. Crawling underneath, moving pressure pot, ect, fun stuff. It was a good part of the day affair shooting that in the booth, and of course it was singlestage (I can just imagine what it would have been like to go back and shoot again with clear). Shop used dupont, but can't remember if it was imron or something else I used. I felt like a fly on stuck to flypaper, sticking to the floor crawling underneath the thing and painting. That one I know ranks right up there with the least favorite things I had to paint. I shoot mostly base clear at home, and for awhile didn't have much ventilation. Don't remember the floor ever getting all that sticky. Never thought of it, but you may be on to something.
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Old 01-16-2007, 06:45 PM
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Well, according to X711, we are both dumb arses. I really don't get that, it is a kinda "known" thing to have a sticky floor and such from spraying a Urethane SS, as well as Acrylic Enamel and a number of other things. If it is a car body...yeah..maybe more ends up on the car but if you have a garage full of overspray, a heck of a lot ends up on everything in the garage. And if you are spraying frames and what not, a LOT ends up on the floor and you.

I don't know, I guess we have a lot to learn.

Brian
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Old 01-16-2007, 08:09 PM
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I've got to chime in and oppose the X 7/11 employee myself.

I completely agree, SS is sticky stuff, I've sprayed several brands (slick, and correctly!) on cars, frames, industrial engines, and even a few wrecker booms. It has actually gotten to the point that my wife can tell, by the sound of my shoes, when I step into the laundry room."Have you been spraying that paint that doesn't get clear again?" It doesn't matter if the booth (and car or other "metal temp") is 110 degrees or 65 degrees, the stuff is just sticky! Yah, I suppose, out of the booth, at lower pressure you'll make the over-spray travel a little less, but it will still be sticky around the car, regardless of spray technique.

I also do not advise using a gun with a "huge" fan when spraying a frame!
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Old 01-16-2007, 08:15 PM
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Thanks for the experiences guys.

It appears that most have experienced an increase in 'sticky mess' when using SSU as compared to base/clear systems. Possibly at different levels of severity. So at least I'm not totally out of line saying SSU is naturally messier than other systems. Seems that stickiness and mess is probably a function of a few issues. Namely amount of overspray, color, speed of activator, temperature, and item sprayed. Of course the item sprayed can release more crap into air because of edges, like spraying a car in pieces. I think a slower activator will cause the stickiness to last longer as would lower temps. Darker colors probably just look worse than lighter colors on the floor and tools and benches. And of course keeping the overspray down will probably really help.

X711, I am for real as you already know. I get very satisfactory result in terms of lack of orange peel and quality of job. But for me that entails using a conventional gun and of course more overspray. I do get the shoe buildup on larger jobs or frames and the like just like Brian says. It doesn't bother me much but it appears to bother the guy who tried it enough to think something is wrong with the product. I'm going to point him to this thread so he can see that it's not a product issue and possible tricks to reduce the sticky mess. Like I said, I've never seen his shop but I'm guessing no booth, conventional gun, paint volume turned up and narrow pattern to get those inside corners on a frame, and wide pattern on the straightaways. Basically, a ton of spray in the air.

I'm going to get that Iwata gun for base/clear anyway but I've tried the SSU with my SataJet 2000 and my Sate RP but I get the best results (meaning smooth, I hate sanding peel) with my trusty old conventional Sata or Devilbiss JGA502. So I'll give your method a try.

Larry
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Old 01-16-2007, 08:43 PM
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I just thought of something. At work they spray semis, and they use a lot of imron and centari. I am assuming thats what they used on the semi that was in the booth before. I went to help tape up a semi and went to lift one of the ladders. I thought someone had bolted ir glued that dang thing down somehow to the concrete for a minute as a joke or something. It was really stuck to the floor and I actually had to push on it kind of hard to break it lose from the concrete, and the other guy went and tried the other ladder and it was stuck the same way. We both just sort of laughed at that.
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Old 01-16-2007, 09:06 PM
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Well guys your all far from dumb and I bet you got a whole lot more experience than me for sure when it comes to painting cars etc but I can honestly say I have never had sticky shoes or a floor etc from SSU. Now its possible that I really have but never noticed it.. humm now you got me thinking I will check the next time I spray to see.

Its kinda funny really. Imagine painting and getting tacked in place. Next day the boss comes in and there you are gun in-hand lol like a statue !

I can see though that its entirely possible depending on where the Overspray goes. With the SSU its more akin to spraying clear than regular base and SSU
is as tacky as clear.

I absolutely hate Overspray and all the mess it brings with it.. So I go
real slow painting. Now if it were a frame or something other than a plain
old car then I can see that the floor may become tacky etc.

X711.
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Old 01-16-2007, 11:48 PM
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It REALLY makes a difference with the gun used, that is one huge variable. Let's say an Iwata LP400 verses a Binks 7. Holy crap, you could spray a whole car with the Iwata from what the Binks would leave on the walls. So that would be a big factor. There are LOTS of things that could change it.

I remember painting a 70ish Firebird Formula in my garage when I was a kid (about twenty) with Centari. I TAPED the door shut from the garage to the kitchen. There was still overspray ON THE DISHES IN THE CABINETS!! This was of course with a conventional non HVLP (Before it was even thought of) Devilbiss JGA502.

That was iwth my ex-wife in a galaxy far, far away. Man do I wish I could put some overspray on her dishes again. I don't mean that to be some sort of sexual inuendo, wouldn't touch her with a ten foot pole. No, I really mean I wish I could cover her dishes in overspray.

Brian
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:06 AM
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Larry,
You may be missing a sales point here!

A few weeks ago I was driving and get a call from an aviation place for a tech question, I had never meant these people before and found out I was going to pass them in my drive, so he says were painting two planes today stop by.
Walked in and the first thing he said is this is how can can tell if a paint is any good.
Takes me back to the painting room and starts almost running in place and says see how sticky the paint is on the floor? Good S--t.
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