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Old 06-12-2007, 05:06 PM
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Starter issues........

I ordered a starter from Summit which is what I used to start the car for initial break-in a week ago, I took my car to an electrical shop to have the guages checked and the car wouldn't start so they replaced the starter with an original style from O'Reilly's, now, 1 day after that starter was installed it has stopped working and I can't get this thing figured out. They said that the flywheel on tranny has 166 teeth, it that correct for a '79 400 4spd? There are alot more teeth on the starter that I got from Summit than there are on the original style. By more teeth, I'm saying the ones on the Summit starter are also closer together and the one on the original have more space between each tooth. Any ideas on this one?

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Old 06-15-2007, 03:27 PM
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:45 PM
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Doc here,

There are Two style ring gears, 168, and IIRC, 153, if your trying to mesh a 153 starter to a 168 gear it will hang up..

Have you tried hand turning the engine backwards 1/4 of a turn? If it's hung in, that usually frees and retracts the Bendix unit.

Doc
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Old 06-15-2007, 05:57 PM
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Gotta ask, what does "IIRC" stand for?

Mark
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:02 PM
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If I Remember Correctly! Its hard to remember all the lingo.
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:02 PM
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If I Remember Correctly

'course there are many of these silly accronyms I DON'T know

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Old 06-15-2007, 06:04 PM
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Were PONTIAC 400's using 168 tooth flywheel? I only ask as I am not familiar with Pontiac so much, and it would appear that original poster was referring to Pontiac 400.
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:26 PM
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He is refering to a Pontiac

400 ci Trans Am-----should be a very nice car when finished
Damn good lookin motor, although it is being a bit DEFIANT
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:59 PM
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I do recall that the Pontiac 400 will have a tendency to cook starters if higher comp. and running certain types of headers. Buddy of mine had a '70 RamAir IV and it had an appetite for new starter about every 3-4 months if stock used, maybe 6-8 months if using hi-torque. This was likely due to lack of clearance/heat transfer. Darn sure made him mad though! But it would not appear to be the situation in this case, so perhaps somebody has some ideas for this fella, and hopefully can help him. Possibly some further details from original threadposter regarding what tests or checks have or have not been performed yet?
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Old 06-15-2007, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmark
Gotta ask, what does "IIRC" stand for?

Mark

Doc here,

Yup..Computer~ese for If I remember Correctly..(when you get to my age.. you sometimes get Neuro Net Missfires.. LIKE

My Bad..Didn't see the Pontiac Avatar there..thought we were talking Bowties..Sorry

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Old 06-15-2007, 10:09 PM
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On a "stock type "Pontiac High torque starter ..

There is where the windings go from the solenoid into the stater{A copper tang} & then there it goes into the starter & then back to the solenoid.

If you remove the "return tang" the power has no choice but to go to the armature of the starter.

My 400's were stock & always hard starter damn sure make you ain't leaving again in 5 Min's type until I had that done.

it would still grunt & groan but it would bust off.







R
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Old 06-16-2007, 10:27 AM
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Hey guys, the reason I'm asking about the tooth count on the flywheel is because Advance and Summit both list it as being a 166 tooth flywheel, and the high torque starter I got from Summit is supposed to be for a 166 tooth flywheel, but when you put the Summit starter and original starter side by side, the Summit starter has a much tighter tooth spread on the bendix than the original starter. Any thoughts on this?
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:12 PM
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A smaller diameter drive gear would have fewer teeth to drive the same ring gear.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzfactor
Hey guys, the reason I'm asking about the tooth count on the flywheel is because Advance and Summit both list it as being a 166 tooth flywheel, and the high torque starter I got from Summit is supposed to be for a 166 tooth flywheel, but when you put the Summit starter and original starter side by side, the Summit starter has a much tighter tooth spread on the bendix than the original starter. Any thoughts on this?

Doc here,

Not being a Pontiac Man at all, that being said, but two thoughts do come to mind..

Take both the stock starter and the high torque starter and on the stock, mark a tooth with paint, and count them, Then do the same with the aftermarket unit, see if they jive..

And if they do..Maybe the difference is OEM standards are higher on the Stock Bendix as far as how much "METAL" goes into the tooth width castings as a higher quality part..with tighter clearances.

Doc
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Old 06-16-2007, 06:47 PM
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Seems kinda weird to me
When I was over it seemed to crank over just fine. No strange noises at all.
(if not for that stupid dizzy, it would have fired)
Anything else happen before taking it somewhere to be worked on???

Ryan--you and your friend wanna come over and pull mine out???
Just aggravates me to even look at it now
Can row a canoe in the puddle of oil in the intake manifold.

Bryan
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