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Old 01-20-2009, 02:47 PM
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Starter or Not

I know this topic must have been covered at some point but I can't find the exact situation like mine. I have a Chevy 454 4spd with 10:1 compression mostly stock specs for the car, 71 Vette. The starter works great at first start up when totally cold but as soon as I shut it off after running only a few minutes (not enough time for heat soak) and then attempt to re-start it acts like it does want to engage the starter gear fully into the fly wheel and makes a bad grinding sound, the type that raises the hair on the back of your neck. Cold start = no grinding and starts right up - - warm = very bad sounds and no turn over of the motor.

What I have done so far is the old Ford Solenoid trick with rerouting the wires away from the heat of the headers. The problem I originally thought was the "S" wire going to the "S" solenoid was only putting out about 5 - 6 volts before the Ford solenoid went in. Now it has a fresh 12 volts from the new set up. This is also a new starter from Auto Zone (Mignt be junky starter) that I've had tested and they say it is good. What am I needing to test or should I try a high dollar starter?

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Old 01-20-2009, 04:47 PM
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Quite possibly the Auto Zone starter is the problem. Why have you invested so much in the engine then cheaped out on the starter? Get a good mini geared starter like the Powermaster Ultra Torque and forget about it.

Vince
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:55 PM
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Thank you for the reply. Your question is painful but true. Do you have experience with this situation? And this starter you recommended?
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:33 PM
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You might want to read this.

Might help might not.

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...otors_Starters




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Old 01-20-2009, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71bbvette
Thank you for the reply. Your question is painful but true. Do you have experience with this situation? And this starter you recommended?
Yes, I have one on my 34 after buying a cheap Chinese mini starter. It has worked perfectly so far. Didn't mean to sound so harsh

Vnce
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Old 01-22-2009, 03:40 PM
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Vince

I appreciate the replys and the direction. I'll be back under the Vette this weekend (4th in a row) to pull it all out again. Did you find a decent deal on the Powermaster Ultra Torque and who sells them?

Thanks Rob for the article it did help. I think the holes in the starter mounts are a little bigger than the bolts causing some slop (yes, they are the original starter bolts). From all that I have read so far it seems the fit between the bolt and the hole should be tight if not the start can move causing misalignment, even if it moves just a very small amount.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:12 PM
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71 Corvette.........While you are under the car, check where the ground strap from the battery is bolted to the frame. I have seen corrosion causing power losses there........Check all your connections while you are at it.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:23 PM
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Poncho62, thanks for the suggestion. I actually removed all the paint around where the ground connects to the frame, it is clean. Also, did the block to the frame. I'm going to go back and recheck it again while I'm under. I wish the wife was on top of me as much as that damn car!
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:31 PM
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71, You understand that there is a metric & a SAE right?

Because the different nose cones & the different bolts compound to create that problem.



Rob
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:50 PM
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Hey Rob - yes, I did discover that while researching. I'm not sure which I have. What I'm not clear on is the thread size or the diameter of the body of the bolt different. In other words, are the threads the same with a thicker body for the metric or SAE? I'm learning so bare with me.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71bbvette
Vince

I appreciate the replys and the direction. I'll be back under the Vette this weekend (4th in a row) to pull it all out again. Did you find a decent deal on the Powermaster Ultra Torque and who sells them?
I'm not aware of any great deals on them, I just ordered mine from Jegs. I knew if there was a problem with it that it would be an easy exchange.

Vince
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:39 PM
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starter

you may have to shim that starter. did u motor that starter when you first purchased it? if not the starter brushes are still working in and will get better with time.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:22 AM
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Yes, I've shimmed it 3 or 4 different ways. Same result great first start but after 2 or 3 start ups it grinds whether it is hot or cold until I take it all off again and reinstall it. Then it repeats all over again. Thats why I think it's a mechanical alignment deal. Block is not cracked thank goodness.

After reading as much as I care to about starters and the problems with them, now I know why misery loves company. I pulled the starter this morning again thinking that the problem was the holes in the starter were too big for the bolts allowing it to move and be out of place, but thats not the case. There's very little movement between where the bolt are knurled but still not real tight. I've read that the fit should be so fit in this area that you can barely turn the bolt by hand. I also read that you should not use any washers as my bolts had lock washers on them so I left them on. Any suggestions from here would be appreciated. I don't want to chase ghost problems or spend 200+ on a starter if the situation is going to continue. Thanks again to all that have replied and I'll take more suggestions.
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:17 PM
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71BBV

That is a good "Q" but I want to say with 95% Certainty that the threads are 3/8"th's 16' .

DAMN GM with their SMETRICS {my word for 1/2 standard 1/2 metric bolts}

I wish they would have just committed to one or the other.

I the Bolts were brand new I would say the Knurled would be almost not finger turnable.

It should be almost zero movement .

One way to find out is to {by finger tightening only} try a 3/8th's 16 , then the size close to it in metric .

That would tell for sure.

As far as I know there are 2 different starter nose typed SAE & metric with corresponding bolts.

As far As I know its the matching of the bolts to the cone that is the most important issue.

For the next time & to all that read this never give up your old starter when replacing with a New / Re-manufactured unit .

The time saved by having your old nose cone is not worth the core deposit paid.





R
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:29 PM
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buy the high torque mini starter vince is talking about from jegs.i bought one for my car no problem since.you can also buy a heat shield for you vette to protect your new starter.they get pretty hot.i put one on my vette worked fine. cole
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