Starter Problems - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 07:45 AM
dasyhard's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Age: 62
Posts: 143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Starter Problems

Hey guys, I need some advice on assesing a problem with my starter on my BBC motor. For some time now when starting my motor, my hitachi starter makes screeching sounds, then it would make popping sounds with smoke coming from the starter, not sure where. The car starts but this noise is annoying. I jacked up the car to view the starter and it looks secured but when I checked the flywheel the teeth is worn on the half way mark. And one tooth is completely chipped off. I took some pics and I hope its clear to diagnose what can cause this or is this normal.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0592.JPG
Views:	112
Size:	1.31 MB
ID:	68431   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0594.JPG
Views:	105
Size:	1.30 MB
ID:	68432  

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:05 AM
Member
 
Last wiki edit: Wiring diagram 1953 Chevrolet
Last journal entry: Spare Tire Dent Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: a little S/E of Nome
Posts: 789
Wiki Edits: 647

Thanks: 6
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Incorrect meshing of the starter gear and flywheel teeth.

Pull the spark plugs, remove the coil wire and take off the inspection cover on the flywheel. While using a remote starter switch, go underneath and check for proper gear meshing between the starter and the flywheel. BBC have a 168 tooth flywheel.

Why would you have a Hitachi starter on a GM?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2012, 03:54 PM
dasyhard's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Age: 62
Posts: 143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the feedback. Since the starter is old and the flywheel is damaged, I've decided to replace both parts and ensure I have the correct bolts and shimmed properly so it's engaged correctly. I ordered the MSD 5095 to replace the hitachi starter. I had a great deal on the hitachi so this is why I installed it. Thanks again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2012, 03:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a similar problem. Changed the starter and still have the meshing noise. Took off the cover plate and disconeted the coil wire and used a jumper starter button to engage the starter to check on the tooth meshing of the starter onto the gear plate. I found out that the outer bolt of the offset starter bolt seemed loose and caused the starter to move when engaging. I tried to tighten but still moved while engaging. Found out that the hole has a crack to which allowed movement of the bolt a little while the starter engaged. Now, my question to the experts would be how do I fix the crack on the block? I hate to change the entire short block. Is it possible to apply a bracket at the end of the starter motor to the block like how some older model chevys use to have? Or is there some sort of epoxy that would fix the crack? Can I use a tap and try and creat a deeper thread and use a longer bolt? Appreciate any help and advice. It is a 96 GMC yukon 5.7 automatic 2 wheel type.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2012, 04:09 PM
dasyhard's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Age: 62
Posts: 143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry to hear that you have a major problem but I'm afraid I can't give you any solutions. Hopefully, someone on this site can.

My situation stems from misalignment of the starter to the flexplate due to incorrect shimming or no shimming at all. I don't think it's the bolts because they seem to be tight. The gears on both starter and flexplate are damaged and one tooth on each gear (both starter and flexplate) are missing. Thanks for the info and I hope you find a less costly remedy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2012, 05:12 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
All GM starters came wih a factory brace bracket to support the front of the starter motor.
This bracket keeps the starter from twisting when cranking.
When you leave this required brace off, the starter motor twists on teh two starter bolts and cracks the
outer starter bolt hole boss on the block.

The fox once the outer bolt hole is cracked is to run a old style 55 chev starter motor that mounts to the trans bell housing instead of the engine block. There is a shee4t metal spacer plate that allows you to adapt this old style starter motor to a later V8. The spacer plate adapter plate goes between the engine and transmission bell housing. You still need a brace on the end of the starter motor to the block at the other end to take up the twisting force.
The small body mini starter should have this end brace too. Two bolts are not enough alone to suport the starter when its cranking/twisting on the bolts.
This adapter plate that allows using the old style starter motor can be bought over the internet.
have to search for the site.
The other alternative is to remove the engine and casti iron weld repair the cracked outer sterter bolt hole and redrill and tap. AND USE THE FRIGGIN $10 end brace on your starter motor.
Thats probily in your tool box somewhere.

If the OEM brace does not fit your mini stater fabricate as required using it as a start.
ALL trhe starters require 3 sopport points or the nose of the starter and or the starter bolt hole will be damaged.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2012, 05:23 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
Chevy Engine Starter Plate Kit, Small Block Engine To Turbo Hydra-Matic Transmission, 1955-1957 - Eckler's Classic Chevy Parts

This should fit an work on BBC too. Don't forget the end brace.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2012, 05:33 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
If you choose to weld repair the cracked/broken starter motor bolt hole boss on the block there is a special alloy welding rod for this. Find a local shop that repairs and welds cast iron.
You will probabily need to remove the engine and bring it to them for repair.

Next time install the support brace.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2012, 02:59 AM
dasyhard's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Age: 62
Posts: 143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you for this valuable information F-Bird, but if you take a look at my attached photos, there is a bracket that sits tight against my starter after I removed the starter. Please view it and let me know if this brace serves its purpose. If not, than I will take your advice and go with the Eckler's starter plate.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0596.JPG
Views:	89
Size:	1.34 MB
ID:	68492   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0597.JPG
Views:	83
Size:	1.29 MB
ID:	68493  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2012, 04:04 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasyhard View Post
Thank you for this valuable information F-Bird, but if you take a look at my attached photos, there is a bracket that sits tight against my starter after I removed the starter. Please view it and let me know if this brace serves its purpose. If not, than I will take your advice and go with the Eckler's starter plate.
Danchuck also sells the adapter plate, check to see who has the better deal on them. More info on the adapter plate and starters in general here.

If the cracked hole has good metal, drill/tap it and use a stud, not another bolt. That will put less stress on the hole and might last a long time.

The starter brace is shown below; it bolts to the back of the starter (the end towards the front of the vehicle, in other words) and connects it to the engine block. It's made for a stock type starter. Aftermarket mini starters generally won't work w/the stock brace.

One other option for a starter is a factory permanent magnet-type starter. Smaller, but still w/good power. Being lighter, it puts less stress on the mounting area. IIRC, someone wrote that ordering a starter for a 2000 4.3L S-10 will get you one that fits a SBC w/a 153T flexplate/flywheel.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2012, 10:21 AM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,026
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 358 Times in 354 Posts
Resize your pictures before posting . The file size and resolution is way too big. Takes too long to load. 640x480 is plenty.
A free download for resizing and managing pictures.
http://www.irfanview.ca/

might last a long time.

They need a brace too. The twisting force is what kills them. Fab your own.
All the starters need 3 support points.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2012, 11:39 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
How much zoom you got cranked into yours, anyway?? Might be time for an eye Dr. appt. LOL

The image is 488 x 206, click on image to see source.



Below is how it appears on my Firefox browser:



Just about right IMO for enough detail to show if someone wanted to fab their own.

Re the brace: The starter brace is a given- that's why I showed a photo of it and partly why I linked to the page on starters.

Last edited by cobalt327; 10-21-2012 at 11:50 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2012, 04:16 PM
dasyhard's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Age: 62
Posts: 143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't know if you were referring to my photos but I decreased the size. Is the plate shown here an actual support of the starter?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0596.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	111.6 KB
ID:	68504   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMGP0597.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	281.5 KB
ID:	68505  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2012, 06:28 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasyhard View Post
I don't know if you were referring to my photos but I decreased the size.
Must be your photos. But w/o any reference its hard to know what's being referred to.

Anyway, what type of vehicle is this? It look like an engine mid mount plate. It wouldn't help the starter, the brace that would help is attached to the other end by one of the through bolts that hold the starter together. The through bolt would have a stud attached to the end, as shown in the image below:



The other end of the brace bolts to a threaded hole in the block:

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2012, 07:04 PM
dasyhard's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Age: 62
Posts: 143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the info....the vehicle is a prostreet 56 chevy with a 540 Dart block, turbo 400 and Gear Vendors Overdrive. The replacement starter is a MSD 5095 mini starter and the flexplate will be a J.W. Performance Transmissions 93005 168 Tooth Flywheel for Chevy which is what the tech at Summit Racing recommended. You mentioned that aftermarket starters won't match up with your suggested plate, correct? If so, than I'll have to look into what Firebird suggested.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
starter problems MAMUWALDI Hotrodding Basics 2 06-27-2011 05:44 PM
starter problems?? Dunbar_1988 Engine 5 11-24-2010 09:11 AM
Starter problems... hollywood2k Engine 4 04-27-2007 01:45 PM
Starter Problems Checy_Guy Engine 6 07-04-2005 10:29 AM
starter problems worknprogress72 Electrical 8 05-02-2004 12:07 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.