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Old 08-21-2006, 09:44 AM
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Starter relay questions

I'm rewiring my 69 charger using a Painless universal wiring harness. I choose to use a standard Ford style starter relay, just like the one that Mad Electrical sells, instead of the chrysler style. I'm unsure if the wire that goes to the starter (the small wire) is supposed to be hooked up to the "I" post on the solenoid. Here's what I have so far:

Battery cable in one side, out to starter on the other side.
Wire from ignition switch to "S" post on relay.
Empty "I" post on relay.

Is this correct?

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Old 08-21-2006, 11:31 AM
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http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml and here's a copy of the wiring I saved from one of Docvette's previous postings. He's the electrical guru here!
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:29 PM
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Thanks Oldman, but I'm actually a bit more confused now. The MadElectrical diagram is different from the one you posted. Their drawing has the battery cable entering one side of the solenoid, and exiting the other side to the starter. I also only have one other post on the starter for a small wire, and your diagram shows two. I'm lost.
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:45 PM
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Note that there are two I terminals in the picture, the one on the relay and the one on the solenoid. You'll want to use the I terminal on the relay for your Mopar setup as the stock Mopar starter doesn't have one. You also don't want to run the entire starting current through two sets of contacts as the Mad Electrical setup does. One set of high current contacts is sufficient.
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:16 PM
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Patrick

IF I remember correctly (I have had my fair share of Chrys. Corp vehicles)
You have it right,
The "I" term might need a wire to the coil if you are running points.

Do you only have the batt cable connection on the starter with no other
terminals on the starter?

I think I remember my Chryslers as the starter drive & Bendix fire at the same time from the batt cable alone.

I do not THINK (could be wrong) the drawing that Doc provided will work for your application.

That particular drawing is for solving a HEAT SOAK no start issue EXTREMELY
common with GM starters.

(okay--not solving, but getting around)
(drawing provided by Doc--used by 73 Olds)

Bryan
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:01 PM
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Doc here,

Not sure What your trying to achieve Here, I read, Stock wire setup using a new painless Harness and a Ford type Relay in place of the Dodge starter relay with a stock starter Bendix drive unit...If I read it right, here is the STOCK diagram for a 69 Dodge/ Generic start system:



Sorry for the Poor Text on the Schematic..scanner is just limping along and I'm working out a Trojan Horse From a Personal Website link..that takes control of the computer dialing and other functions when the mood strikes it.. ...



Ford Type Solenoid..
  • Either Big bolt , left or right will get the Battery Cable, and Cable to the Starter motor Bendix unit, and the wire (Stock is blue) to Ammeter.
  • The other Big Bolt Goes to the SMALL terminal on the Starter BENDIX unit..(Energize line)
  • The "S" Terminal will get the Ignition "Hot IN START only " wire (Stock is Orange)
  • The "I" terminal will not be used.

The Flow Will Be..
  • Orange wire from the Ignition Switch to the "S" on the Ford Solenoid.(low Current side of the solenoid)
  • On the High Current side of the FORD relay, Will go the Battery cable, The Dark BLUE wire (which on STOCK Harness) Turns into a red wire to the Ammeter, And A Cable from the High current side to the Starter motor Cable terminal. (Bendix)
  • From the Other Bolt on the high current contact of the FORD solenoid, the RED wire runs to the Small terminal on the starter (Bendix)..

You Can use the "I" terminal for the "S" wire to the Bendix, BUT it is a low current contact as opposed to the Bolt opposite the battery cable terminal on the Ford Solenoid. BUT both will do the same job..

NOTE: the "Starter Solenoid" on the bottom of the diagram, should read "Starter BENDIX unit" ..anyway it's the unit on the starter..

This is If I understand what you are trying to do..

Doc
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:10 PM
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Okay---sorry

Been a long time since I had to work on a Chrysler

Forgot a lot.

Doc is a God

Bryan
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:16 PM
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S is the wire for the start position. I will supply 12v to the bypass on cranking for a points ignition, electronic ignition, leave it off.
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan59EC
Okay---sorry

Been a long time since I had to work on a Chrysler

Forgot a lot.

Doc is a God

Bryan
Doc here,

To tell the truth..not a Mopar Guy at all..

I Wouldn't have remembered myself , EXCEPT for the fact We were Bent over My Nephews Dodge Truck 318 re~Assembling His new engine and installing a new cam...


(Photo Before Rebuild , just dropped off by the Bone yard)

Still learning on a DAILY rate on Mopar, and Ford ... as opposed to GM ...nothing surprises me anymore as I find out there is GM and the rest of the world..

Doc
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Old 08-21-2006, 11:58 PM
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Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you. I didn't know you could even see the Mad Electrical kit diagram. I just referenced it so you could see the kit that was available. Sounds like others gave you more specific info for your application. There's other types of cars out there other than GM!!!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by professor-patrick
Thanks Oldman, but I'm actually a bit more confused now. The MadElectrical diagram is different from the one you posted. Their drawing has the battery cable entering one side of the solenoid, and exiting the other side to the starter. I also only have one other post on the starter for a small wire, and your diagram shows two. I'm lost.
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Old 08-22-2006, 08:23 AM
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Thanks everyone. Doc, to clear up what I am trying to do - I'm completely rewiring my 69 charger using the Painless Universal wiring harness. I'm running an MSD 6 ignition system. I'm not using any of the original chrysler starter relay. I applied a small charge from my battery charger to the system last night, and found that when I turn the key, the S terminal on the relay gets hot and sends power to the other side of the relay (large terminal running cable to starter, and I terminal). I think I can run a wire from the I terminal on the relay to the starter to engage it. This way the only time any power will be going to the starter is when the key is turned to the start position. Sound right? Any problems with my thinking?
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Old 08-22-2006, 09:09 AM
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You never hear of Mopars having hot-start problems like the Chevy's. The reason Mopar puts the relay in the circuit is to guarantee that the bendix solenoid will get sufficient current. If you use the I terminal from your Ford relay you stand a chance of not having enough current capacity to run the bendix reliably. These contacts are designed to conduct some small current around the ballast resistor, not energize a large coil. I would wire the system exactly as Mopar designed it using the Ford relay instead of the Mopar relay. The schematic posted by 73Oldsman would work well. You don't really need to run the battery cable to the Ford relay, just use a wire of sufficient capacity to carry the solenoid current.
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Old 08-22-2006, 04:17 PM
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Doc here,

If you want to maintain STOCK wiring, The Battery Terminal goes to the left side of the Ford solenoid, as well as a cable to the starter Bendix unit, and the Ammeter. These wires bring power to the solenoid , The Bendix and support the Vehicle Buss system.

The other side of the large terminals is the Bendix energize line..(small terminal on the Bendix unit to large terminal on the Ford Solenoid)

The "S" wire on the Ford Solenoid will receive the Orange wire from the Ignition Switch..(Hot in Start Only) .

The "I" Terminal is not used.

Internal to the Ford solenoid, the CONTACT Shoe is common to all three terminals, and is a single "Plunger" and Contact area on a rod, controlled by an inductor to all three, so a rating there is not a question..HOWEVER, The "I" terminal itself has LESS contact area and diameter to Load, making IT a weak link That can heat the phenolic case, and cause it to go brittle and crack, and loosen the terminal in it's mount over time.

The Larger terminal offers More Diameter to the contact area to the wire to transfer power than the smaller "I" terminal, and is the better choice.. AND is why they picked that terminal.

The "I" terminal will work , as all three are common to the same Contact shoe..but is less current capable than the big terminal..and if you use the "I" terminal the big terminal will have nothing on it anyway..why not use it? Better choice.

The GM version posted by 73 oldsman IS electrically Equivalent to the Dodge diagram with the exception of the IGN and Neutral safe switch not being shown and the Ammeter wire , also sub the GM Solenoid for a Bendix unit on a Dodge..So 73 oldsman, you did not confuse the issue..it's just drawn slightly different

Were it I, I would use the large terminal for the Bendix energize and leave the "I" terminal open..but the choice is yours.

Doc
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:14 AM
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Thanks everyone - I think I got it now!
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