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Old 10-24-2007, 11:41 AM
84Z 84Z is offline
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Starter shifting and grinding.. new starter? Where does starter brace go?

Ok so I finally figured out my starter grinding issue, the starter I bought is a very good built unit, but the holes are too big for the bolts and the machined part on the starter, where the starter bolt heads rest are too big for the bolts. There is a good 2mm around the bolt heads. I recently bought arp starter bolts and a starter brace to try and fix it, but I couldnt find any place the starter brace would mount to, and the arp bolts run into the same problem as the current ones I have. I have a sbc 400 block with staggered starter bolt pattern. My question is, would some washers which will fit PERFECTLY on the bolt and in the machined groove fix my problem? Would the brace fix it? or should I get a new starter. If I need a new starter, could someone recommend one. i havent found a quality staggered mount starter except on ebay, but I dont want another chea one. I want my problem gone!!! And yes I have tried cranking the bolts down extremely tight, and it works for one or 2 starts then the starter shifts again. Help me!!! thanks.

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Old 10-24-2007, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Z
Ok so I finally figured out my starter grinding issue, the starter I bought is a very good built unit, but the holes are too big for the bolts and the machined part on the starter, where the starter bolt heads rest are too big for the bolts. There is a good 2mm around the bolt heads. I recently bought arp starter bolts and a starter brace to try and fix it, but I couldnt find any place the starter brace would mount to, and the arp bolts run into the same problem as the current ones I have. I have a sbc 400 block with staggered starter bolt pattern. My question is, would some washers which will fit PERFECTLY on the bolt and in the machined groove fix my problem? Would the brace fix it? or should I get a new starter. If I need a new starter, could someone recommend one. i havent found a quality staggered mount starter except on ebay, but I dont want another chea one. I want my problem gone!!! And yes I have tried cranking the bolts down extremely tight, and it works for one or 2 starts then the starter shifts again. Help me!!! thanks.
GM requires a specific factory bolt that is a tight body fit in the starter's holes. Regular bolts do not work properly. If you have specific starter bolts that are loose, it could be the holes in the mounting boss are not a correct size for some reason.

The brace attaches from the back side of the motor, usually one of the through bolts that hold the starter together. The brace then makes a connection to a bolt boss on the block at or around the right side engine mount attachment.

Bogie
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:32 PM
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The bolts that came with my starter have the knurled or whatever marks towards the bottom and they are starter bolts, they look exactly like my arp ones and the ones I used to have in my old block.

Do you have a picture of how the brace is supposed to go on? Do you bolt it up from the head of the bolt, ro the part that goes into the block?
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:45 PM
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I've had a similar grinding.. wasn't consistant though, so I'm not sure if it was the starter shifting.

I installed (just a few weeks ago) a powermaster start from summit, used there bolts. As took a file and cleaned the burrs off the flywheel.

Here's a little test, put it in and make some marks with a sharpie.. or similar object. give it a few starts and see how much its shifting.

Another question to ask.. Do you have the correct start for your flywheel (168 vs. 153 teeth). I think the diameters are close enough that it might cause that issue.. anyone have experience with this?
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Z
The bolts that came with my starter have the knurled or whatever marks towards the bottom and they are starter bolts, they look exactly like my arp ones and the ones I used to have in my old block.

Do you have a picture of how the brace is supposed to go on? Do you bolt it up from the head of the bolt, ro the part that goes into the block?
That is the correct type bolt. They should go into the starter's mounting holes tightly, almost to mostly unable to rotate with your hand.

I don't have a picture on the bracket mount. But it should go on the forward (front of car) end. There are different designs and different sizes for different motors, there are about 4 or 5 different motors Chevy uses which vary in diameter and or length. So a bracket for one motor may not fit others or may need modification to fit. The parts counter guy will most likely act like you're and idiot and he doesn't know what you're talking about when it comes to different starters and brackets. Here's a couple examples:

http://www.ss396.com/mm5/merchant.mv...y_Code=STARTER

http://www.ss396.com/mm5/merchant.mv...y_Code=STARTER

If all else fails you might just have to go the hardware store and buy some 1/8 to 3/16s thick steel strap and configure you own.

These things should attach from the starter motor, one of the long bolts that hold it together to a solid spot on the block; this is usually one of the engine mount bolts. If you have a shorty starter motor it might be necessary to come from one of the solenoid thru bolts. Keep in mind that it may be necessary to replace a thru bolt with a longer version to accommodate the thickness of the bracket and still have enough thread on the other end to make a secure connection.

You also need to have on hand a Chevy starter shim kit for correcting the tooth engagement distance and the gear throw distance, the URL is representative of this kit.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...0002_158734_-1

Bogie
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:21 PM
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I have the starter brace in the first link you sent. I'm thinking about buying a powermaster starter, but i'd rather not pay $260 for a starter!! The starter brace doesnt go up that high to connect to the motor mount, only place it could remotely go is to the bellhousing bolt, but it doesnt fit like that. If you could get a pic that would be amazing. Maybe I should just get that starter and be done with it, probably wont need the brace or the arp bolts then either.. Thoughts?
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Old 10-25-2007, 12:39 AM
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I haven't seen it in probably 15 years, but I think the top of my brace bolts up to a boss on the side of the block, just above the front of the starter. I think one of the long thin bolts that holds the starter together may have a stud-like threaded outer section that holds the bottom of the brace.

\\\\\----------------------------------------------------------[]--\\\\\
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:59 PM
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I replaced my cheap no-name mini starter with a Powermaster 9600 and few months back and have been very pleased with it:

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...0002_301946_-1

I went with the 9600 instead of their cheaper series because PM said this style (Denso) would not have any heat soak problems. It cranks much faster and stronger than the cheap no-name I had it there.
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimfulco
I haven't seen it in probably 15 years, but I think the top of my brace bolts up to a boss on the side of the block, just above the front of the starter. I think one of the long thin bolts that holds the starter together may have a stud-like threaded outer section that holds the bottom of the brace.

\\\\\----------------------------------------------------------[]--\\\\\
That is true. I have one starter bracket sitting somewhere in my tool box.

I pulled the bag off my old 350 ('76) engine and no boss! Checked a bagged 400 I have too and no boss. Hmmm, wonder were they went? LOL

Personally, I can't see the starter moving far enough to let the teeth miss and still have the bolts tight. Hmm.

Mark
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