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-   -   Starter woes Again (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/starter-woes-again-46486.html)

dollybud 08-27-2004 12:12 PM

Starter woes Again
 
I purchased another Delco mini starter and put on last nite. My other post "no power" explained my problem. Now the problem is the stater gear comes out and stays frozen to flywheel or flexplate and than everything goes dead again like before,no power, to anything. I think I've read every link Dutchmen supplied in a post and thanks Dutch its a valuable link. When I loosen the 2 starter bolts and wigle the starter gear retracts ok. This is identical starter I had before and never required shimming. When I take the starter off and hook up a booster battery with booster cables(batteries disconnected in trunk) + to ford remote solenoid and ground I get all electrics back. This has got me baffled and I'm ready to....the sob. I can wire a house and no prblems, but auto wiring I'm useless. Any help or solutions greatly appreaciated!
-grounds are all good, the same with all connections
-remote ford solenoid appears to be ok.
-no burn't wires anywhere
-horn relay wires cleaned and reconnected
-battery fully charged
- hidden kill switch ok, no blown fuse
-starter button ok,(don't need key)no blown fuse.
-cannot find any fusible links but think if there are any they may be ok as I can get back electrics
-the wires from starter to ford remote starter are good
:mad: :smash: :( :pain:

docvette 08-27-2004 03:54 PM

Remote Solenoid
 
[color=yellow][size=3]Doc here:pimp:

Sounds like the Remote solenoid may be shorted or miswired or failed. like it's hanging, holding the solenoid drive in when you hit the key, but not suppling power to the main start battery cable. have you checked the connections on that?

Doc:pimp:
[/color][/size]

dollybud 08-28-2004 06:38 AM

Thanks for the quick reply Doc
All connections on the remote solenoid are good and it is wired correctly. When I push the starter button the starter engages and then the gear comes out with one click and freezes and everything goes dead. The remote solenoid has no discolouration, nor appears to have ever been hot or shorted unless something inside of it is screwed. Is it possible its just not engaging properly on the flywheel, and would you recommend getting another remote solenoid and trying it? Teeth are all good on both starter and flywheel gears. I even took the new starter to 2 different alternator, starter shops, and both tested it and says it works fine as I watched. :pain: :(

docvette 08-28-2004 01:46 PM

starter
 
[size=3]Doc here:pimp:

I would try a new Ford solenoid first.

Are you Sure the starter drive has the right amount of teeth for your flex-plate?

Next how are the grounds? Is the Engine CABLE grounded to the battery?

Try those,

Hope it helps!
Doc:pimp:
[/size]

dollybud 08-29-2004 07:34 AM

Thanks again Doc.
I bypassed the remote solenoid and the results are the same. The starter gear meshs with the flywheel and than just freezes there(stays out) and won't roll it over and everything goes dead. If I leave the booster cables on they begin to get really hot as I guess the starter is still being energized. This starter has the number of teeth as the other one which worked OK for almost 2 years. All grounds are good. Main ground to engine block, block to frame,and these are with heavy cables. There is also 2 braided copper wires from each head to firewall. I even installed a separate ground wire on the remote solenoid which is bolted to the firewall. I'm going to pull a few plugs and roll it over by hand again to make sure nothing is seized, and maybe try shimming the starter away from the flexplate. What do you think, and more suggestions are really welcome from you and anyone else. I'm completely baffled! Summer will be over here soon, and would love to get her going to enjoy whats left.
TOM

docvette 08-29-2004 02:56 PM

Froze engine..
 
[size=3]Doc here:pimp:

Yeah, If you have done and check all that and it's all good....It's not lookin' Good fur the home team here...

Check to be sure you didn't freeze it up... and if it turns, shims might help, however as you said the other worked well for 2 years then this started...:pain: :sweat: :pain:

Keepin' my fingers crossed fur ya here...

Doc
[/size]

dollybud 08-30-2004 05:56 PM

Hi Doc,
I can roll it over by the crank pulley, and the flexplate after I took out the 4 easiest plugs. I even exchanged the new starter for another and it engages and just freezes in the flexplate. I've tried shimming, still the same. The only difference now is that the electrics (dome light ,etc.) stay on and the cables don't get hot but the starter gear still stays engaged with the flexplate. This happens when I jump the "s" terminal with the B+ terminal on the starter solenoid, and also using the start push button inside the car. This is also the same with the remote solenoid connected and than bypassed, it still makes no difference. Battery, cables, grounds everything is up to snuff. I cannot figure this one out and like I said in my original post it was cranking over fine and than just nothing, no click, nothing as if there wasn't a battery in it. I just don't know what the hell to do!and believe me it is so frustrating, I get so mad I just have to walk away from it for a while. Someone has to have the answer I hope. Thanks again,
Tom:smash:

docvette 08-30-2004 06:39 PM

End Play
 
[size=3]Doc here :pimp:

OK, you probably don't want to hear this...

Have you checked for too much Crankshaft end play? Can you move the Crank in and out?

You might want to look at that.

Doc :pimp:
[/size]

dollybud 08-31-2004 05:22 PM

Heres the latest I've tried and emails and PM's I sent to different members:
Thanks for the email. I have bypassed everything and still no luck. I disconnected everything from starter and ford remote solenoid. I connected directly to the starter using a fully charged good battery and booster cables. Positive from battery to B+ on starter solenoid and negative from battery to one of the starter bolts for a ground. I then jumped the B+ with the "S" terminal on starter solenoid. Gear came out and froze and then just clicks. I have tried shimming but to no avail. I have marked the flywheel and can rotate engine by hand even with the plugs in all the way around till I see my mark. I have tried engaging the starter at different positions on the flywheel but still the same.It is a little easier after I removed 4 plugs. To-morrow,time permitting I am going to take out all the plugs and try bumping the starter the same way described above.I havn't tried to engage the starter with any of the plugs out. I hope nothing internal is the problem.Thanks again, and if you come across any more ideas or suggestions greatly appreaciated. Docvette suggested checking crankcase end play..how do you do that without tearing it down?
Tom :smash:

dmc12mk3 08-31-2004 10:22 PM

I might have missed this part, but I'll ask just in case it helps. Have you tried engaging the starter with it laying on your work bench? I usually hook a booster pack up to mine (gm's, not ford's) and touch a wire from the relay post to the + and see if everything is getting spun and kicked out properly.

I'm sure you could work up something similar with your remote solenoid and starter just to see.

MI2600 08-31-2004 10:49 PM

Just a thought:

It sounds as though the starter (which works fine out of the vehicle) is not engaging the flywheel squarely. Are the bolts in good condition and are you using a rear brace?

dollybud 09-01-2004 04:16 PM

Thanks for the info. DMC I have bench tested starter. MI2600 it sits squarely when it engages as I have looked at the teeth when it meshs and freezes,and it looks fine starter teeth in flywheel straight and proper clearance. Its easy to check the clearance when it freezes in flywheel. Will take out all plugs and try. It's beginning to look like something internal,will keep the board informed.:pain:


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