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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2009, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barthmonster
and no wetting the floor, in some climates I've heard doing that can cause dirt in the paint...
Hi , how can wetting the floor 'cause' dust , I thought it was meant to hold/reduce the dust?

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2009, 11:04 AM
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You're right, of coarse.
Ford Motor uses a watrfall in their paint booth just for dust control.
Lots of people wet the floor first.
I used to all the time but I really didn't notice much difference.\
so I've gotten away from it.
Don't let anyone tell you the humidity is an issue either,
I prefer to paint while its raining, do it all the time and get my
cleanest jobs that way. Slicker too.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:11 PM
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barry will have to help you on this one, but it does. Something about the humidity-level in the air getting too high and curing those hardeners (Isocyanates) in the paint right out of the gun tip. These small dried particles show up as dirt. I've read you can only spray the floor in certain climates, presumably somewhere thats dry to begin with... Never in the South is what I've read (I read a lot)

Your problem to me sounds like it's not dirt and not static either...
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 08:46 AM
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Ok ,, maybe something is at fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark
You're right, of coarse.
Ford Motor uses a watrfall in their paint booth just for dust control.
Lots of people wet the floor first.
I used to all the time but I really didn't notice much difference.\
so I've gotten away from it.
Don't let anyone tell you the humidity is an issue either,
I prefer to paint while its raining, do it all the time and get my
cleanest jobs that way. Slicker too.

Still getting untold rubbish in paint, having bought a Devilbiss sri pro + iwata antistatic air lines the Devilbiss Filter /Regulator/coalescer (0.01filter) which was boxed brand new 1 yr ago (fleabay) has 'never' shown any signs of collecting dirt/water etc in its clear filter chambers (checked the instructions and nothing is miising). My compressor is a big old 150litre/150psi Clarks Industrial and when drained always has water/rust. I always imagined plenty of rubbish in there, but nothing ever shows on the filter which is 8mtres away, as if the dirty air goes right through it. Can anything go wrong with such a filter? It still looks mint/clean.
Any ideas ?

Filter FLRC-1
http://www.itwifeuro.com/Editor/file...SHLINE-REG.pdf
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:01 AM
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Do you use one of the disposable "bulb" filters
at the gun? they're cheap and will remove any dirt up to the gun.
If you use one of those and strain your paint then any dirt has
to be from either the ventilation air flow or dirt that's already on the surface.
Make sure you tack it off real good, you shouldn't feel anything
from sliding your bare hand over it after tacking.
that's where Endust has helped me.

Most of my dirt comes from the ventilation,
I've reduced and redirected my air flow,
and try to paint out of the air stream,
(where the air isn't being pulled across the surface).
That has reduced my dirt a lot.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2009, 05:38 PM
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this is how it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark
Do you use one of the disposable "bulb" filters
at the gun? they're cheap and will remove any dirt up to the gun.
If you use one of those and strain your paint then any dirt has
to be from either the ventilation air flow or dirt that's already on the surface.
Make sure you tack it off real good, you shouldn't feel anything
from sliding your bare hand over it after tacking.
that's where Endust has helped me.

Most of my dirt comes from the ventilation,
I've reduced and redirected my air flow,
and try to paint out of the air stream,
(where the air isn't being pulled across the surface).
That has reduced my dirt a lot.

Listen guys , thanks for all your input, it has actually helped eliminate things.
I'm still using he coalescent filters (they look mint internally) plus now use disposable bulb filter at the gun (immaculately clean gun) with antistatic airlines, new paints, hardeners, reducers etc ,new SRI Pro gun, still crap in the paint.

Last possibilities.
The booth is 12ft x 9ft x 8ft with double door. One exhaust filter 12" and one 600x600 standard glass strand filters (green one side white the other) inlet filter.
Everything worked fine 3 months ago. Then I decided to improve things and blocked all the gaps and made everything air tight (there were some enormous gaps). I painted the mdf walls (eggshell), replaced double door with an airtight one , the space now looks very clean and white, almost a lab, and now dirt in the paint is x5 as bad!
Maybe inlet is too small and will always create masses of turbulence.

To sum up simply: all the work I have done has been to make the booth far more airtight and now the dust in paint is far worse! where-as before in a booth full of gaps I used to get virtually no dust in paint. Maybe its an airflow thing (I'm not so good with things I can't see).
Rem, this project is for a paint finish that can't be compounded. It has to be a one-shot finish.


Any ideas?
Thanks for your time
G

booth filters used, the green and now the blue boxed : http://www.morrells.co.uk/products/sundries/5#121
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 01:09 AM
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Have you tried it with your extractor fan turned off ?

I don't take half as much trouble over cleanliness as you or most people on here and I don't even use a purpose built spray booth and I have little trouble with crap in the paint....most of the time...but then again I nearly always flat and polish
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daz_uk
Have you tried it with your extractor fan turned off ?
Daz suggests a good way to test your turbulence theory. Shoot a small test piece with no fans running in the booth.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:29 AM
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Better fan, and a Plenum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
Daz suggests a good way to test your turbulence theory. Shoot a small test piece with no fans running in the booth.
Yeah tried that , still dirty (Just stuff in the air). I'm just now fitting a more powerful extractor fan (friend gave me) , will either make things worse or better or the same.

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/pr...xial-plate-fan

The fan (new and old) goes straight out the wall to outdoors, does anyone know how a plenum works. Is it a chamber that enable the exhaust to be less focused/direct from the area its extracting?
Its looking like its going to be a 'flat & polish' summer.

Thanks for you input.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:50 AM
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Please forgive me if I'm covering ground you have already covered...mostly just thinking out loud here to attack this perplexing problem.

How about this possibility. Your booth is not all that large...at least compared to a car shooting booth. AND you mentioned that 3 months ago (I assume after you first build the booth) things worked fine. But now you are getting dust. Could you have accumulated dust from prior spraying on your walls and ceiling such that when you pull the trigger on your gun it is causing enough pressure all the way out to the surrounding walls that you are dislodging the prior dust and swirling it around the booth?

As an experiment you could wash down the walls really well, actually repaint them with a "sealer" type oil base, OR buy some cheap plastic tarps to hang over the existing walls. Then shoot an experimental piece of two to see if you still have dust.

The debris has to be coming from somewhere...just seems to be a process of elimination to find the source. And you certainly seem to have eliminated most of the normal culprits.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
Please forgive me if I'm covering ground you have already covered...mostly just thinking out loud here to attack this perplexing problem.

How about this possibility. Your booth is not all that large...at least compared to a car shooting booth. AND you mentioned that 3 months ago (I assume after you first build the booth) things worked fine. But now you are getting dust. Could you have accumulated dust from prior spraying on your walls and ceiling such that when you pull the trigger on your gun it is causing enough pressure all the way out to the surrounding walls that you are dislodging the prior dust and swirling it around the booth?

As an experiment you could wash down the walls really well, actually repaint them with a "sealer" type oil base, OR buy some cheap plastic tarps to hang over the existing walls. Then shoot an experimental piece of two to see if you still have dust.

The debris has to be coming from somewhere...just seems to be a process of elimination to find the source. And you certainly seem to have eliminated most of the normal culprits.
Hi Cboy , thanks for your attention, I think the walls are ok (all egg-shelled mdf) and polycard twinwall windows all around. I have wiped them down each time.
Swapped intake filters (white/green ones in link below) for the blue ones (on same page) which have a finer filtration. I doubled them up as i just remembered thats how they were before when all worked well. Can particles come off the blue ones: they are designed as exhaust and not intake filters, my intake area is two of these.
Fitted different fan (x3 more powerful). Have not shot yet as humidity is low at 38RH.
Any ideas how to humidify the incoming air. (Humidity seems to help when it rains but then I'm totally reliant on the weather).

Thanks for your thoughts , will post results tomorrow.

G

boxed filters:
http://www.morrells.co.uk/products/sundries/5#112
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 08:38 PM
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Are you using a screen in the cup?Sometimes it will slowly clog, spraying dry out of the tip not allowing full fluid out,it will look just like dust.Try rinseing the gun with lacquer thinner between every clear coat.I'm sorry to say if that doesnt work,you'll have to start at the beginning using the prossess of elimination. start by eliminating the air supply question by filling a portable air tank up and use that to paint something small , change air lines ,gun,try eliminating the paint components that arnt nessessary,I really dont think its the booth but anything is possible.sometimes the hardner will get a little thick when it sits for a while giving you the same dirt look ,caused by comming out dry you can try reduceing further if this works just get fresh hardner but dont waste your money till you know what the problem really is,I suspect you'll find it to be a viscosity problem.You do have the fluid knob wide open,dont you?
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
Are you using a screen in the cup?Sometimes it will slowly clog, spraying dry out of the tip not allowing full fluid out,it will look just like dust.Try rinseing the gun with lacquer thinner between every clear coat.I'm sorry to say if that doesnt work,you'll have to start at the beginning using the prossess of elimination. start by eliminating the air supply question by filling a portable air tank up and use that to paint something small , change air lines ,gun,try eliminating the paint components that arnt nessessary,I really dont think its the booth but anything is possible.sometimes the hardner will get a little thick when it sits for a while giving you the same dirt look ,caused by comming out dry you can try reduceing further if this works just get fresh hardner but dont waste your money till you know what the problem really is,I suspect you'll find it to be a viscosity problem.You do have the fluid knob wide open,dont you?

Ok ,
a) hardener is from newly opened tins (but do they have a shelf life, Debeer 47-35 MS hardener)
b) "You do have the fluid knob wide open,dont you?" . . . . . . No . Usually have it set to 2 1/2 turns out from fully closed evilbiss GTi 1.4./1.3 What's the advantage in having it fully closed?
c) In such a relatively small booth should the air in-out movement be fast or slow. Obviously slow disturbs airborne particles less but faster air flow gets stuff out quicker?

Thanks for any advice
G
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 04:45 AM
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Ive painted in both,slow and fast moving air but balancing the air is best,more air coming in than going out.that booth you described sounds fine,I'd be very surprized to find that as the culprit.Ok,so how about the cup screen? If you have one ,take it out,try again.explain to me again what type of materials your using,can you take some pics of the compressor and lines, air supply filters,outside pics of booth and intakes then inside of the booth and intakes,placement of parts you painted in the booth and finally the problem parts thmselves.Q:do all parts do this or just plastic parts?dieslemotors and kerosine heaters will mess up a paint job also,do you use the booth for anything else besides painting? Forget about humidity my best jobs are done while its raining,the temp outside can be controlled by reducers(hotter outside temp requires a slower reducer)so forget about that too..your air hose could be contaminated,but thats not likely.I've painted many ways in many kinds of environments,I've also built and designed my own systems including my compressor and filters so I know we can get to the bottom of this.Take some pics and get back to us.I love a mystery. Mike o.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:07 AM
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my style of painting is wide open.I set the fluid control full on and the trigger with no stop,I control the fluid by how far back I pull the trigger,I paint very fast,as fast as the paint allows me,the cutting in of jambs is done with afeather like control of the trigger but gun is set wide open.Now personal style is not the point here and I'm sure someone will tell you its crazy to do this but its worked well for thirty five years and when I'm part of a crew ,one by one they all see the advantages and come around to my way of painting.So set the fluid control wide OPEN paint as fast as the paint allows(no orange peel)no runs this could very well be your only problem,also lower the air pressure as low as you can,dont look at the gauges just set by ear and results,just enough pressure to atomize the paint well,to much pressure will cause a problem with dirt looking dried overspray,like you described too.

Last edited by deadbodyman; 05-12-2009 at 05:23 AM.
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