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Old 04-22-2005, 01:50 AM
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steering bump 23 t-bucket

i have 23 t-bucket and as i drive over 45 the front wheels go everywhere. i have been looking for a steering stabilizer for it or if any suggestions i will be glad to listen. i have taken to several old timers and they have nt been able to see what is causing my problem. i'll try anything.

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Old 04-22-2005, 06:00 AM
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Wandering T

Seen this a few times, so try one of the below after checking for a broken leaf or a broken axle centre bolt. I used to be an inspector for street rods and believe me the problem is not rare.

1. Caster not enough - should have 3 to 7 degrees of positive caster in your front axle lack of caster will allow the front end to "fall off " straight ahead position.
2. Wrong steering arms - If the steering arms are not fitted so that a line drawn between the pivot point of the arms and the king pin intersects at the centre of the rear axle the toe out on turns will be all wrong, I have seen arms that are meant to be used for rear steer applications used facing forward, this causes extreme wandering at anything above 40MPH because the outside front wheel is turning at tighter radius than the inside front as soon as the steering wheel is moved.
3. Front axle swinging on the frame - sometimes the axle can move independently of the chassis just by the design of the set up. If this is the case someone watching out the back of a car driving in front of you will be able to see it. adding a PANHARD bar to the front axle will eliminate this, or in some cases a DEAD PERCH can be used.

Hope this can get you on the road safely.

Cheers from Oz

Rob
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:55 AM
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ranger,

If possible, a couple pictures of your front end, taken from different viewpoints, might help some of our better chassis folks diagnose the situation. Rob is probably on the right track but pics would help narrow down the suspects.

Dewey
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Old 04-22-2005, 09:09 AM
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I need pictures!
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:48 PM
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Thx guys for the little help so far i will gets some pictures up as soon as i figure out how to load them. give me a day or two. thx
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:46 PM
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i have posted some pictures in the gallery so i hope that you can help me out. if i have the wrong steering arms can someone tell what arms i need and where i might find them. thanks again for any help
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Old 05-10-2005, 03:15 PM
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The steering arms are on backward as you probably know. The extra boss on the driver's side arm is intended to point backward on the rear of the passenger side spindle and accept the pitman arm from a cross-steer steering gear. Otherwise looks like a sweet rat installation.

It has to be a problem with your alignment. Sure looks like you have gobs of caster (king pins tilted backward) which is good for going straight. Can't tell form the pictures about the camber (wheels tilting out at the top - ideal is to have the centerline of the wheel intersect the centerline of the king pin at the tire/road interface) but beam axles usually don't lose that setting. What is your toe-in (distance between front of tires should be less than distance between rear of tires)? May want to crank in a little more toe-in and see how it tracks. From the pictures it sure looks like your rod ends are bottomed out in your tie-rod. This may be why you don't have enough toe-in. Suggest taking the rod apart and cut off 1/2" or so off each end. This will give you a little more adjusting room. Typically 1/8" difference between the front and rear measurements will do the job.

Is there any play in your steering gear? When you can turn the steering wheel even slightly, the front wheels should respond. If there is slack, there is an adjusting screw on the back side of the steering gear that is used to adjust the slack out of the gear.

If those DIY things don't improve the situation, take it to a front end shop that works on I-beam truck axles.
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Old 05-10-2005, 08:33 PM
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Did the steering problem come on over time or has the car always lost it over 45 mph? I ask because reversing the steering arms (to get front steer) has put your Ackerman somewhere in Toledo. If the car drove well with this set up at some point in the past then clearly it's not the Ackerman. But if it has never handled well, then this MIGHT be the problem. (Maybe there is an Ackerman specialist who'll check in and tell us more about that possibility.)
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:10 AM
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Willy's has answered your question concerning your steering problems.

Here is a link that will explain and has some diagrams.

http://www.nationaltbucketalliance.c...n/Ackerman.asp
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:24 AM
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I don't know if I'm an "Ackerman specialist," but I'm certain that, when considering this problem, you'd be chasing the wrong rabbit. The popular story is that Ackerman steering was developed to avoid disturbing the gravel in the driveways of wealthy owners of early automobiles. Has nothing to do with stability or cornering ability. In fact, due to the load handling characteristics of the tires used on today's Formula One cars, it would be far more common to find negative Ackerman.
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShope
... but I'm certain that, when considering this problem, you'd be chasing the wrong rabbit.
Thanks for the clarification BillyShope. Ranger can cross THAT one off his list.

Dewey
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Old 05-12-2005, 09:23 AM
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thanks guys i will start with the toe since that seems the easiest and go from there let you know how she runs. by the way i have had this problem as long as i have owned the car.
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Old 05-12-2005, 11:36 AM
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Keep us updated on your progress. Shouldn't have to toe the front of wheels (measured @ the inside, outer edge of the tire) more than 1/8" more that the back. 1/4" is as far as I would go. The more I think about it, that tie rod is probably the same size it was when it was on the rear. If so, it is too long. When on the rear, it was made longer to get toe-in. On the front is needs to be shorter and if it is bottomed out, need to cut off a little adjustment room.
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Old 05-12-2005, 11:53 AM
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Just 2 more cents

Where is the steering box located on this car..I was always told to place the center of the steering box shaft on a line vertical to the pivot point of the radius rod on this style of front end..that the difference in length between the drag link and the radius rod would contribute to a bump steer..

As well it sounds like there may be more of a shimmy problem than a bumpsteer problem here..

H'mm just thinking about this is all..

OMT
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