sterring wows - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2011, 09:40 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: metiaire la.
Posts: 2
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sterring wows

have a 35 chevy some one clipped the front end with a 65 to 70 maybe malibu front but they also narrowed the carrrage i need some info on correcting the geometry in reguards to the steering . wheels do not return straight have rebuilt complete suspension and steering. it has a some where around a 25:1 box mounted behind the control arms. the box goes almost 6 turns stop to stop need tofind someone with more expirence than me. i even put a rack and pinion on it but still not knowing the geometry i created some bump steer. looking for some kind of fix with out spending a fourtune or maybe a little good direction

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2011, 04:42 PM
Art Deco's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 46
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If the steering wheel is not returning to zero, try adding a bit more positive caster. (if its at all adjustable)
Sorry I'm not terribly familiar with the GM front suspension.
Check for binding too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2011, 05:33 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,014
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 717
Thanked 1,083 Times in 966 Posts
And this sounds like a text book reason why frame clips are a looser.

They probably welded in the clip where it was purty instead of where it works. I will put money on it there is zero or little or maybe even negative caster. Have you had it aligned, what are the specs?

If you can't get the caster out of it because they welded it in to out of whack, you can sometimes purchase offset upper control arms. I don't know if they make them for that particular "car" (what the sub frame came out of). But I have seen them used when this has happened using a Camaro clip.

Caster helps the car roll down the street straight and helps the wheel return back to straight when you come out of a corner.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:24 PM
MRTS33's Avatar
33 Pontiac 3W Sport Coupe
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 117
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I don't think it's a (Chevelle)Malibu clip. The Chevelle was a full frame car and steered in front of the cross member. Steer from the back of the cross member would be more than likely a Camaro/Nova front clip as Martinsr has pointed out.

Now the narrowing of the carrage. Do you mean narrowing the cross member? If that is the case the center link would have to be narrowed the same distance I would think. I'm not sure I follow that line of thinking but I guess they had there reasons.

The 6 turns on the steering wheel has got me a bit confused also. That seems a little excesive to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2011, 10:06 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,014
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 717
Thanked 1,083 Times in 966 Posts
Do you have any photos of this front end? They could have changed the pitman or steering arm length to throw off the amount of turns of the wheel.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:45 AM
NEW INTERIORS's Avatar
Believe in yourself !!!!!!
 

Last journal entry: 41 WILLYS FRAME
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In My Shop..
Age: 49
Posts: 10,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,167
Thanked 509 Times in 379 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
And this sounds like a text book reason why frame clips are a looser.

Sorry but this is far from the truth !!!

I have installed more then I could keep count of..... The only way I would agree with what you said is.... If the clip was installed wrong.. In this cast it most likely was..... But a properly install clip done RIGHT is very nice...



What it sounds like here is a Nova clip and they set it with the nose down.....
The caster is wrong.... The clip would have to be cut off and reinstall right..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:31 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,014
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 717
Thanked 1,083 Times in 966 Posts
Like most anything, some are done right, some are done wrong. The problem with the clips, so many are done wrong. It comes easy to you because you have high skills and common sense. But when the average guy does it he very quickly ends up with a mess. It takes a very high degree of skills to pull it off properly.

I think most people will think it's simply lining it up and welding it on "straight" with the wheel base measured it's all good. But it can be SO MUCH more complicated than that as you know.


Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:54 AM
NEW INTERIORS's Avatar
Believe in yourself !!!!!!
 

Last journal entry: 41 WILLYS FRAME
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In My Shop..
Age: 49
Posts: 10,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,167
Thanked 509 Times in 379 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Like most anything, some are done right, some are done wrong. The problem with the clips, so many are done wrong. It comes easy to you because you have high skills and common sense. But when the average guy does it he very quickly ends up with a mess. It takes a very high degree of skills to pull it off properly.

I think most people will think it's simply lining it up and welding it on "straight" with the wheel base measured it's all good. But it can be SO MUCH more complicated than that as you know.


Brian

I really don't see where you say so many are done wrong..... I have only run a cross One in my area...And the ones I have seen done right out weighed the ones done wrong...Now as far as skill... I would say if you do your home work, Anyone could pull it off with very good result's.. It takes more common sense then skill's... The very first one I did was around 20 years ago.. (I'm guessing)... And nailed it first try and was amazed how well it drove... It was on a 51 Chevy truck... (Camaro clip)

Yes I may have the skill's and common sense now.... But I didn't back then... But I was determine to do it.... And been doing it even since......

I just hate to hear a comment like you made...(People can get the wrong idea form this comment)If you don't like them,,That's fine !!!!
I know it your opinion, But it's rubbing some salt in his wound...

Clip's have been around for a very long time... And people are still doing it successful today..

Can they be installed wrong??? Yes... But a paint job can be painted wrong also.... And so many other thing's too....

We do have a few members here that are running a clip in their truck's... That really enjoy them...

This is a Camaro clip I put into my 57 Chevy car,,,, And this car ''NEVER'' rode this good before...

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	100_0919.jpg
Views:	576
Size:	116.0 KB
ID:	59332  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:58 AM
NEW INTERIORS's Avatar
Believe in yourself !!!!!!
 

Last journal entry: 41 WILLYS FRAME
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In My Shop..
Age: 49
Posts: 10,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,167
Thanked 509 Times in 379 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbnitro
have a 35 chevy some one clipped the front end with a 65 to 70 maybe malibu front but they also narrowed the carrrage i need some info on correcting the geometry in reguards to the steering . wheels do not return straight have rebuilt complete suspension and steering. it has a some where around a 25:1 box mounted behind the control arms. the box goes almost 6 turns stop to stop need tofind someone with more expirence than me. i even put a rack and pinion on it but still not knowing the geometry i created some bump steer. looking for some kind of fix with out spending a fourtune or maybe a little good direction

Man.. I'm about 35 Min's or so from you... Send me a Pm's with your address And I'll be glade to stop in one day And look at what you have and Maybe give you some advise on what would be best for you to do with what you have now....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:52 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,014
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 717
Thanked 1,083 Times in 966 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
Now as far as skill... I would say if you do your home work, Anyone could pull it off with very good result's.. It takes more common sense then skill's.
You are not giving yourself enough credit. I have seen MANY clips in person and on the forums that were from a mess, to just not to the owners expectations.

Heck yes they can be done properly, so can chopping the top on a 79 Camaro but I am going to recommend against it with passion because it is too difficult for most guys dreaming of doing it. I am going to recommend against sand blasting sheetmetal, not because it is impossible without damage of course it can be done but both chopping the top and sandblasting (and frame clips) when done wrong are more than a bad paint job, they RUIN the car. They kick the ever loving crap out of the guys heart and soul.

But when it comes to sandblasting and frame clips most of all because there are other ways that are WAY easier and possible by the average guy asking the questions.

You are EXTREMELY skilled, most guys don't have the skill and talent and passion you have in one finger in their whole body.

I am not going to talk the person who really could pull it off out of it, but hopefully I will talk the ones out of it who are the right ones to not be doing it.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:53 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,014
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 717
Thanked 1,083 Times in 966 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
Man.. I'm about 35 Min's or so from you... Send me a Pm's with your address And I'll be glade to stop in one day And look at what you have and Maybe give you some advise on what would be best for you to do with what you have now....
Now THAT sounds like a great idea! Rock on Randy!

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:03 PM
NEW INTERIORS's Avatar
Believe in yourself !!!!!!
 

Last journal entry: 41 WILLYS FRAME
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In My Shop..
Age: 49
Posts: 10,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,167
Thanked 509 Times in 379 Posts
Thanks for the kind words Brian... But I never look at myself that way...My friends are always telling me the same thing.. I'm just myself when it come to cars.. That's All I ever see..


To me.. Setting up a mustang II front end is just as hard as doing a clip.... They both take skill's if you want to go there...A person can really screw up a frame with a new Mustang II front end if he doesn't do his home work.... So One is no better Or Easier then the other in that case.... Believe me... When I did my first one.. I was scared... Before I did mine, I went to a car show and seen A sweet looking 1948 Chevy truck,, It was RED !!! And I was asking the guy that owned it, What he had done... He said I have a Camaro clip in it.... I said that's great... I have one also and I'm about to give it a try... We talked for a while... And I asked was it worth the trouble to do it.... He then said.. Get in,, I will show you if it's worth it.... We went for a ride,,, And I have to say.... IT WAS WORTH IT !!!! When I got home that day,, I cut the front off my truck.. AND started burning Amp's..

Then When I took it for it's first ride down my street.... It was NICE !!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:11 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,014
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 717
Thanked 1,083 Times in 966 Posts
We will have to agree to disagree. I have done both and the Mustang II is MUCH easier in my opinion.

The clips are also too wide for these old cars (thus the narrowing that was done on the OP car) so it can run into many other problems.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:20 PM
NEW INTERIORS's Avatar
Believe in yourself !!!!!!
 

Last journal entry: 41 WILLYS FRAME
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In My Shop..
Age: 49
Posts: 10,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,167
Thanked 509 Times in 379 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
We will have to agree to disagree. I have done both and the Mustang II is MUCH easier in my opinion. Brian
That all depends on who made it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
The clips are also too wide for these old cars (thus the narrowing that was done on the OP car) so it can run into many other problems.

Brian

That's why it's better to use the cutlass , regal , or Monte Carlo 58'' hub to hub..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C6 Linkage wows "70" Cougar Transmission - Rearend 19 11-24-2005 07:34 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.