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Old 11-26-2007, 09:51 PM
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stick welding question

I have to do some trailer repair, welding some brackets on and other stuff and my 160 amp MIG is broken, waiting for parts..
I do have my 300 amp Hobart AC/DC TIG/ stick machine and a stinger lead for it. So I can either wait, Tig weld it, or try to stick weld it.

I haven't done any stick welding since 9th grade. But I ain't scared to try it again.



I set the machine up today , and tried some beads on some scraps. The Hobart will melt some electrodes, no doubt about that. It's kind of strange, using a pedal with a stick welder though. (maybe there is a switch for having the stinger live all the time, I haven't found it though).

I was using a 5/32 7018 ac rod, and the machine seemed to work fine, but I haven't a clue on where to start with my settings, or if I'm using the right rod or what. I was leaning the electrode about 15* in the direction of travel, weaving with a crescent motion, tried to keep the arc length about 1/8 or a little more, and had the amps set to about 150 AC, with the bias knob on my machine set to max penetration. It seemed to be cutting in pretty good, but the bead still seemed high to me. I was welding 2 pieces of rectangular tubing together to start, but most of my welds are going to be T joints.

The material I am welding is 1/4" , hotrolled I beam and channel, all of it is dirty and somewhat rusty. I can grind it mostly clean, but it's going to have the stuff that old trailer steel has in it.

Should I use another type of rod? I thought there was a rod for dirty old trailer and early ag work.
Is DC better for this?

A little pointing in the right direction would do me alot of good.

Thanks for reading this,

later, mikey

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Old 11-26-2007, 10:25 PM
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Well Mikey, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert

BUT heres what I do know,

Stick welding is fairly forgiving with dirty materials, never the less you should attempt to clean at least the surface as best as you can.

You have the angle correct! Your bead might be a little high because your travel speed is too slow and you are getting a greater build up.

As for the weaving, it is largely up to personal preference, I learned to stick by adopting the technique of my teacher (a mechanic) and I simply made little circles along the weld, and it works for me.

As for the electrode selection 6010 electrodes are better for deeper penetration whereas 6013 electrodes don't penetrate as deeply, but both can be used for mild steel applications.

An AC stick welder could do the job, but if you are unsure, and dont need it any time soon wait for the MIG, its easier, and hey it even looks prettier

Hope this helps! Good Luck
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:32 PM
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Been ages since I used a buzzbox but I think we used 6011 or 6013 on our farm back in the day..Yup get the grinder out or I use a 40/60 grit flap disk and hit the weld areas before you weld..like the man said the high bead can be slow travel..Just get it hot enough to blow out on your sample and then cut the amps back a bit...that was how I was taught..

Sam
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:36 PM
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Thanks, I have an AC/DC machine, but I was using some AC rod..because that's what I had.)

(I couldn't tell you the difference, I would think DC would be better anyway).

I saw some stuff at the welding supply called fleetweld, I think it was 6011...Would that be a better choice for grungy old trailer work?

Just saw Sams post...man that guy is fast.

I set my mig the same way

Mikey
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:41 PM
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7018 is a Low Hydrogen rod,And a 6010 or a 6011 is a mild steel rod.7018 is stronger.hope this helps.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:51 PM
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The 6011 is Ideal for that sort of repair work..I woudl run it on ac as it has been shown that sometimes that old metal is magnetized and AC wroks better if that is the case..that is why we used the buzzbox..(Simple Lincoln ac welder) on the farm implements..One rule of thumb is to use rod that approx half the thickness of the metal to be welded...Multiple pass also works just fine with that sort of simple equipment..

Lookee here

Sam

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Old 11-27-2007, 02:35 AM
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We use mostly 7018 and 8018 at work for mild steel and then specialty rods for other metals. I think it runs better than 6013 imo especially vertical up, but everyone has a different preference. Only thing is I would use 1/16" rod run at about 120-125 amps unless you have pretty thick metal your welding. I am not familiar with the hobarts but our millers have a contactor switch just flip it to on then it will be live all the time. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-27-2007, 02:36 AM
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WOW, mikey asking for advice??? who would have known. back in the old days-70s- i used 6011 rods, not 1/16 but 1/8. i used a 0-200 amp DC welder and always cranked it to 200 amps and controlled the weld by speed. if i could see the bead on the otherside of the metal i knew i had good penetration. use fresh rods, those suckers absorb moisture in the flux coating and then don't weld worth crap. just like any other welding just drag the bead along.
old school arc is great for thick stuff.

i know of your great knowledge but remember always weld with the stick pointing foreward at 45 degrees--<<</ this way the metal is preheated ahead of the weld and the flux coating on the rods will shield the weld from contaminants.

OH, and make sure you have one of those old time slag chipping hammers to chip away the slag, you should find a nice weld underneath!!

the hardest thing to get used to is the rod gets consumed as you weld,so you are always moving it into the weld to keep the proper arc, you start at 9" and stop at 1" and then chuck another 9" rod into the clamps to go to 1" again.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:40 AM
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sorry its late I meant to say 1/8"
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Old 11-27-2007, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papa_clutch
sorry its late I meant to say 1/8"
sorry?? no need to appologise, 1/16 is probably right for 120-125 amps. i always weld full blast at 200 amps, thus 1/8th rod. the mig i bought last year has never been set on anything but full blast eather...full blast=good penetration.
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Old 11-27-2007, 05:27 AM
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Mikey...I use a 6011 for old dirty crappy, rusty stuff ( farm equipment)....if it is fairly clean and your going to grind and clean up your joints a little...I would use a 5/32 7014 and set the welder on 130 amps. This is what works best for me and I do a lot of trailer building and repair. The 7014 is a real easy rod to use and is plenty strong enough for your application. Weave the rod in a crescent fashion and also push it just a little.
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:15 AM
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Your probably already done ,but heres a few pics for you Mikey.
Definitely 6011 for dirty steel.1/8" for easier handling at 110-120 heat depend on machine.No more than 15deg.tilt on rod.If your welding flat you can weave the rod.It's definitely slower than mig.Clean the slag between passes.
If you need to do vertical up,try not to rush it....a root pass then a nice cap on it.I try not to grind too much weld off(just makes for weaker joint)
good luck

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Old 11-27-2007, 06:45 AM
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If you have not done this already you should use the 7018 but not that 7018 AC rod it is a PITA! Get some 1/8" 7018 rods (DC) and run them on reverse polarity at around +/- 125 AMPs and there will be a world of difference in what you have there with the 5/32" AC rod. 7018 is ideal for mild steel and will run in any position. I REALLY don't like those AC 7018s because they just don't weld good at all and about the only good thing about them is they are a bit easier to weld with on an AC machine.
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Old 11-27-2007, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
7018 is a Low Hydrogen rod,And a 6010 or a 6011 is a mild steel rod.7018 is stronger.hope this helps.
Yep, the low-hydrogen rod is my choice for most buzz-box welding. It leaves virtually no slag, very little spatter, flows way better and is much stronger than the 6-series rods. At least those are my experiences.

Antny
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:05 AM
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DC welding offers advantages over AC for most Stick applications, including: easier starts; fewer arc outages and sticking; less spatter/better looking welds; easier vertical up and overhead welding; easier to learn "how to weld" and a smoother arc. DC reverse polarity (electrode positive) provides about 10 percent more penetration at a given amperage than AC, while DC straight polarity (electrode negative) welds thinner metals better

Common electrodes used for general work include 6010, 6011, 6013, 7018 and 7024,
Current setting: The correct current, or amperage, setting primarily depends on the diameter and type of electrode selected. For example, a 1/8 in. 6010 rod runs well from 75 to 125 amps, while a 5/32 in. 7018 rod welds at currents up to 220 amps. The side of the electrode box usually indicates operating ranges. Select an amperage based on the materialís thickness, welding position (about 15 percent less heat for overhead work compared to a flat weld) and observation of the finished weld. Most new welding machines have a permanent label that recommends amperage settings for a variety of electrodes and material thicknesses.
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