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Old 02-05-2006, 04:25 AM
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Still Need Help !!! Still Desperate!!!

I bought a rebuilt Chevy 350 with early Vortec heads. We started the motor up and within 5 to 8 minutes it over heated. The coolant in the radiator stayed cold and the water pump pumped in some hot water to the top tank. After 3 brand new water pumps total of $390 (making sure that the direction of rotation was right because it is setup for standard rotation) so the water pump is fine. I tried two different radiators, took one to the radiator shop where he said the 4 tube Walker radiator was fine. I also called Walker Radiator in TN and this guy said that the radiator is fine. We tried the second radiator any way. First radiator is fine. Changed radiator caps and both radiator hoses. all the time the thermostat was out after the first overheating, but it was working fine. Also I have two gauges mech and electrical. Overheated right away within 5/8 minutes. Now we clamped a standard garden hose to the inside of the inlet hose (built up a layer of bigger and bigger hoses) of the water pump. Not running I turned on the hose and after about 2 minutes the hose blew out with a big bang. I would have thought that it should just flow through and not build up so much back pressure. Then we reclamped it started it up, hoping to reduce the back pressure from the incoming water. It pumped some water out. Stayed at 180, but after about 3 min the hose blew out again with a big bang. Do you have any ideas,because with this is costing money fast with the engine, parts and labor,in fact a lot faster than the car is going?

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Old 02-05-2006, 05:56 AM
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I suspect you have a gasket or two holding back flow. First thing I would do is pull the intake and heads and check.
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Old 02-05-2006, 06:30 AM
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Backpressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbonzo Bojangles
I suspect you have a gasket or two holding back flow. First thing I would do is pull the intake and heads and check.
You are right on. To act like that, you have a blockage thats creating backpressure and hot spots. You are going to need to pull the heads. As they come off, look at the gasket match first. Then go thru the head water passages to see if there is any blockage or check to see if build up has blocked any passages. With the heads off, run a hose thru the passages and see if the flow is interupted. Also, make sure its not a blown head gasket. Check the oil to see if the dipstick is milky, ( water / oil mixed ). Good Luck, DOUG
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Old 02-05-2006, 07:13 AM
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Just a wild thought, any chance someone solid filled the block before you got it? You could try to pop out a freeze plug and take a look.

Mark
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Old 02-05-2006, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbonzo Bojangles
I suspect you have a gasket or two holding back flow. First thing I would do is pull the intake and heads and check.
I felt that might be the case, but when I just spent $2200 on getting the motor,another & $350 for delivery, plus labor cost of $1200 and extra parts,new carb, the aforementioned three water pumps,starter cover, Cool-flex hoses and the list goes on a ways, well....well..... I do appreciate your reply. Thanks Jack
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Old 02-05-2006, 07:33 AM
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So are are you saying you didn't work on this engine yourself? You've obviously got some blokage someplace, and just because you paid somebody a lot of money to build an engine does not ensure they didn't make a mistake. The easiest things are usually overlooked.
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Old 02-05-2006, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drm184
You are right on. To act like that, you have a blockage thats creating backpressure and hot spots. You are going to need to pull the heads. As they come off, look at the gasket match first. Then go thru the head water passages to see if there is any blockage or check to see if build up has blocked any passages. With the heads off, run a hose thru the passages and see if the flow is interupted. Also, make sure its not a blown head gasket. Check the oil to see if the dipstick is milky, ( water / oil mixed ). Good Luck, DOUG
Doug, this seems to be by next direction. The mechanic I am using basic thought the same way. It is just that he has thirty hours into this I got more,being a new rebuilt just was't what I wanted to hear. Admittly just before we packed it in Saturday I had asked him to pull the dipstick. I told him I was not brave enough to look or with my luck lately, anyway it was fine. I appreciate the directions too,I will make a copy of them. Thanks, Jack

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Old 02-05-2006, 08:11 AM
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Throwing money at a motor will not fix it. You have to apply some mechanical skill. Yours or someone elses. With no thermostat in the system water will flow freely through the pump and the rest of the engine. If it doesn't, the cooling passages are plugged or otherwise restricted. As there is a small amount of water coming through, I would pull the intake and remove the rags stuffed in the front head passages. Not as uncommon as you might think.
The thing I find curious is how quick it overheats. From dead cold at idle, just the water in the block should keep it below 200 for about 12-15 minutes. This statement is based on how long my 348 hp 389 will run on the stand with no radiator. I just like to start it occasionally and listen to it. I know that is comparing apples and oranges, but they are both fruits. Anyway, the quick heat build would indicate the engine is not filled with water which brings us back to plugged passages. You have been treating the symptoms. Now it's time to do a little surgery. If you haven't been in contact with your builder, it is way past the the time to do so. This engine needs torn down and some internal problems addressed.
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:12 AM
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"350 and early Vortec heads". I've never been into a vortec engine, but don't they require rear water crossover in the heads too? Maybe the intake is wrong and has blocked off the rear water passages from head to head? I dunno, just tossing out things that might spark a thought.

Mark
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 61bone
Throwing money at a motor will not fix it. You have to apply some mechanical skill. Yours or someone elses. With no thermostat in the system water will flow freely through the pump and the rest of the engine. If it doesn't, the cooling passages are plugged or otherwise restricted. As there is a small amount of water coming through, I would pull the intake and remove the rags stuffed in the front head passages. Not as uncommon as you might think.
The thing I find curious is how quick it overheats. From dead cold at idle, just the water in the block should keep it below 200 for about 12-15 minutes. This statement is based on how long my 348 hp 389 will run on the stand with no radiator. I just like to start it occasionally and listen to it. I know that is comparing apples and oranges, but they are both fruits. Anyway, the quick heat build would indicate the engine is not filled with water which brings us back to plugged passages. You have been treating the symptoms. Now it's time to do a little surgery. If you haven't been in contact with your builder, it is way past the the time to do so. This engine needs torn down and some internal problems addressed.
I am going to contact them tomorrow and see what they have to say. I had a '65 goat with a 389 and a 310 (old style of duration measurement) duration cam, with the headers opened it was neat. Also had a '66 with trips open them up and that was great. Thanks for your reply, jack
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:32 AM
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Hi Jack. I think calling Randy tomorrow is a very good idea. If I can help any, let me know, their shop is about 4 miles from me! LOL

Other thing that came to mind. A 400 block with 350 gaskets and heads would over heat too. Again, just tossing in ideas.
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:54 AM
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350 overheating

Jmark is on the right track about the heads! Early vortec stuff has different flows/passages. Speaking from experience-if they are not hooked-up right, they will overheat and then warp.

Chris Laarman
Ottawa Engine and Performance
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Old 02-05-2006, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj11l
Jmark is on the right track about the heads! Early vortec stuff has different flows/passages. Speaking from experience-if they are not hooked-up right, they will overheat and then warp.

Chris Laarman
Ottawa Engine and Performance
Hi Chris, what you would be saying is that it may be wrong head gaskets or I have read somewhere that if the gaskets are put on upside down this will partial block the flow? The intake gaskets may be wrong? Thanks for the info.Jack
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Old 02-05-2006, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmark
"350 and early Vortec heads". I've never been into a vortec engine, but don't they require rear water crossover in the heads too? Maybe the intake is wrong and has blocked off the rear water passages from head to head? I dunno, just tossing out things that might spark a thought.

Mark
The intake have 8 bolts to hold them to the head so they are like a "package" Also thanks for your "location" mesage, I do want to hear from him first before I react.
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Old 02-05-2006, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 61bone
Throwing money at a motor will not fix it. You have to apply some mechanical skill. Yours or someone elses. With no thermostat in the system water will flow freely through the pump and the rest of the engine. If it doesn't, the cooling passages are plugged or otherwise restricted. As there is a small amount of water coming through, I would pull the intake and remove the rags stuffed in the front head passages. Not as uncommon as you might think.
The thing I find curious is how quick it overheats. From dead cold at idle, just the water in the block should keep it below 200 for about 12-15 minutes. This statement is based on how long my 348 hp 389 will run on the stand with no radiator. I just like to start it occasionally and listen to it. I know that is comparing apples and oranges, but they are both fruits. Anyway, the quick heat build would indicate the engine is not filled with water which brings us back to plugged passages. You have been treating the symptoms. Now it's time to do a little surgery. If you haven't been in contact with your builder, it is way past the the time to do so. This engine needs torn down and some internal problems addressed.
I agree, if there is no water in the oil, then it isn't the gaskets, and if the thermastats out then the water should be flowing freely, whether the water pump is flowing truely the right way or not. The jets being clogged are the only way, unless you have some sort of fluke motor it is the last thing the problem could be...
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