stock 400 small block - how much dish? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2007, 05:03 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 1978 Trans Am
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hannover, Germany
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
stock 400 small block - how much dish?

Hi folks,

I thought about 'reviving' my 400 small block. It's a 511 casting with 997 heads. I would like to leave the bottom end alone for now and only add better heads and a new cam, probably a Comp XE272H. I don't think I'll need the performance of those fancy aluminum heads and that's why I thought about a pair of RHS ProTorker Vortecs (170cc/64cc).
The only reason why I still might consider aluminum is the increased compression - which is a good thing but maybe a tad too much for those iron heads. I know that these 70s 400s have dished pistons but I'm not sure exactly how much. This info is probably somewhere out there but I'm unable to find it.

Thanks for your help.

Ekki
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2007, 06:27 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: How to title a hot rod Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Virginia
Age: 24
Posts: 3,389
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
not sure how much those heads cost but patriot has new aluminum 1.60 2.02 with 64 cc chambers for $795
Shane
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007, 03:00 AM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 1978 Trans Am
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hannover, Germany
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's interesting that you mentioned these Patriot heads.
I was almost ready to order a pair of their 'Freedom' series when someone else (much more knowledgable than me) told me to stay away from those 'off brand' heads.

Any first hand experiences with these heads?

Ekki
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007, 07:57 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 725
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Question

I imagine you want to know how much dish your pistons have so you'll know what your compression ratio will be with the new heads? If you know what your compression ratio is now and the cc of your present combustion chambers you can make a good educated guess as to where you'll end up with the new heads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007, 08:50 AM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 1978 Trans Am
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hannover, Germany
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ernkazern
I imagine you want to know how much dish your pistons have so you'll know what your compression ratio will be with the new heads? If you know what your compression ratio is now and the cc of your present combustion chambers you can make a good educated guess as to where you'll end up with the new heads.
That's correct. As far as I have read the stock heads(76cc)/stock pistons make a compression of appr. 8.5:1. This would appr. mean a 20cc dish.
If this number was correct I wouldn't see a problem with 64cc iron heads since this would give me a compression of appr. 9.5:1.
OTOH I've read somewhere else that the stock engine has appr. 9.0:1 compression - which would produce >10:1 with 64cc. Maybe a bit too much for iron heads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007, 02:06 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,182
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 292 Times in 289 Posts
Either the RHS pro torker vortec head or a Upgraded modified GM 062 oem vortec head will work great on your 400. use either the Comp XE274H-10 or the Comp XE284H10 . It will make more power with the larger cam yet still very torky with the vortec type head.. it's not too much.
If you want aluminum, get the 64cc Edebrock E-Tec head. Use a vortec intake manifold. Either way will be a winner. All these heads are better than the Patriot heads. More usable torque thru the majority if the rpm band you'll be using..
If you have the factory type 400 dished piston your cr will not be too high with a 64cc head. If you have flat tops in your 400 use a 72-76cc head.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007, 04:19 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: How to title a hot rod Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Virginia
Age: 24
Posts: 3,389
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekki
It's interesting that you mentioned these Patriot heads.
I was almost ready to order a pair of their 'Freedom' series when someone else (much more knowledgable than me) told me to stay away from those 'off brand' heads.

Any first hand experiences with these heads?

Ekki
CarCraft did a test on them recentally with good results.
Shane

Last edited by Chevrolet4x4s; 08-12-2007 at 06:54 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007, 05:39 PM
MI2600's Avatar
Member# 3287
 

Last journal entry: Vortec Heads
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: N. Muskegon, MI
Posts: 2,632
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I thought that Car Craft test showed they were not that spectacular compared to the Vortecs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007, 06:52 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: How to title a hot rod Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Virginia
Age: 24
Posts: 3,389
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
they were very close in Hp to modified Vortechs.
Shane
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007, 08:40 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
stock small block

Are you sure you want to do this? Is the bottom end stock? Depending on which intake manifold, heads, headers, carb CFM, etc., you could make up to 460 HP at 6000 RPM with the XE274H cam. This sounds like shrapnel time to me if you don't go with a good crank, rods and pistons!
Look at some of the 383 engine kits on line to get and idea of the possibilities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007, 08:48 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,182
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 292 Times in 289 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 377paul
Are you sure you want to do this? Is the bottom end stock? Depending on which intake manifold, heads, headers, carb CFM, etc., you could make up to 460 HP at 6000 RPM with the XE274H cam. This sounds like shrapnel time to me if you don't go with a good crank, rods and pistons!
Look at some of the 383 engine kits on line to get and idea of the possibilities.
This motor will peak out before 6000rpm. There is no reason to rev it higher.
its not nessess sary to abuse this motor with excessive rpm to make it perform.
5500 to 5800 is all thats nessessary for max performance.

Therefore the stock crank, rods and pistons will be fine. You'd need the XE284h-10 to make 460hp or very close to it. Most likely 450ish hp. You'll have a ton of usable torque. the Xe274 will make a little less all the way thru the band from 3000 up. The Xe284 needs a 11" "2800-3000 stall" converter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:16 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
400CID power

F-BIRD'88 is right. With ASSUMPTIONS of 1.94"/1.5" valves but H.P. heads, large headers w/o cat, 9.5 C.R., hi flow dual plane intake with 750-800 CFM carb., and the XE274H cam, the numbers are 415 HP @5500 RPM and 460 LB-FT @ 2500RPM. This is doable. Source is Camquest(R).
I still worry about the rotating parts condition.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2007, 03:49 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 1978 Trans Am
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hannover, Germany
Posts: 16
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks a lot for your feedback/suggestions, guys. The bottom end has to wait for now - if the whole mill falls apart I'll use the 350 again which is now in the car. I had bought a XE262H for this motor, besides I have a Hughes 2500 stall converter, a 700R4 transmission and 3.55 gears. I think those heads would also be nice addition to the 350 - if everything else fails...

Btw, resumption of 'project 400' was a rather spontaneous idea cause right now I have an opportunity to ship rather heavy parts (like cylinder heads) over here - which otherwise would cost me more arms and legs than I have.

Ekki
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
350 vs. 400 small block penguinoitaliano Engine 12 01-08-2007 11:56 AM
do it right the 1st time, strong 400 short block budget build, stock parts? Warrant Engine 9 12-04-2006 07:29 PM
400 small block what rev limit brit1956belair Engine 11 04-03-2006 12:01 PM
Will a 4.00 inch stroke fit in a stock 400 chevy block? 454me Engine 5 08-20-2005 09:04 AM
400 small block compression and head gasket question 19nova72 Engine 2 07-07-2005 09:49 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.