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Old 11-26-2006, 10:57 PM
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Stopping rust from the inside.

got a '73 nova hatchback. i bought a new hatch off an omega then sandblasted it and primered it. i havent had time to put a sealer on it yet and its been sitting for a little over a year like that. im starting to hear rust flakes from the inside when i open it all the way. is there some sort of epoxy i could fill the hatch with that will dry hard and stop the oxygen from progessing the rust? besides it rattles with the stereo up loud and those two layers could use support in between. any ideas?

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Old 11-27-2006, 07:13 PM
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That sounds really ugly! I'd say you really need to take it off and try blasting the inside thoroughly, or have it dipped (which I hate having done). Then epoxy the poo out of the inside. Then you could spray Schults or a bed-liner in it. I don't know what your long-term plans are for the car, but, if you just fill it with POR15 , it will not last for very long. Your hatch has cancer, and it sound like it may be a terminal case. The real best solution (I know it's not easy to accept) is to get a better hatch. Good Luck!
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Old 11-27-2006, 07:47 PM
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Sometimes, if you let it go too long, you end up with nothing but a lump of rust shaped like the part and at that point it is time for replacement.
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Old 11-27-2006, 08:18 PM
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If possible get a look at the interior of that hatch, if the rust is a light surface rust and the seams aren't swelling around the perimeter then I'd suggest removing it from the car and stand it on edge, spray down the interior with cosmoline or 3m rustfighter or Amsoil MP-HD and allow it to soak into the seam. You'll need to rotate the hatch so each seam has some time to soak down really well. If the hatch was blasted is there any chance you could be hearing loose sand inside instead of rust? What kind of primer did you use on the exterior surfaces? The only kind of primer that will hold up to the elements for any length of time is epoxy, 1K type lacquers and self etch primers break down fast and absorb moisture, 2K urethanes will also absorb moisture over time. Take care of it now before it's to late or look for another hatch to prep for installation. Nova's are cool. Bob
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Old 11-27-2006, 09:49 PM
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well my idea was to fill it with an epoxy type glue, to seal both sides together and that way when it hardens the formed rust wont have any chance of reacting with oxygen to progress. then i'll spray the outside with sealer finally. the primer i sprayed it with after sandblasting was a sandable primer (yea i know..) i didnt have sealer at the time. or maybe before i fill it with the epoxy-glue i'll soak the inside with a rust neutralizer. does this sound like an option or just a waste of time?
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Old 11-27-2006, 11:35 PM
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I suppose that would be an option. But, like I said it's not a very permanent solution. Just "sealing off" rust from oxygen does not stop it, or keep it from growing. As a temporary solution, until maybe you can find a better hatch, I was thinking maybe you could fill it with that expanding foam or something of that nature. You would need to be careful not to put in to much, I heard that stuff can apply quite a bit of pressure to the panel as it expands and could push out the skin, in your case maybe rip apart the hatch. Some of those stereo guys do this to keep panels from rattling at 150+ DBLs.
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Old 11-27-2006, 11:50 PM
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I had an old time restorer tell me that when he finished a car he sprayed all the unseen interior surfaces/crevices with dirty engine oil and just let it drip. I guess there's certain amount of logic to it.

I've never tried it, but I have used old oil on a crossmember that you could hear rust inside. It's lasted 10-12 years.
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colormecrazy
I suppose that would be an option. But, like I said it's not a very permanent solution. Just "sealing off" rust from oxygen does not stop it, or keep it from growing. As a temporary solution, until maybe you can find a better hatch, I was thinking maybe you could fill it with that expanding foam or something of that nature. You would need to be careful not to put in to much, I heard that stuff can apply quite a bit of pressure to the panel as it expands and could push out the skin, in your case maybe rip apart the hatch. Some of those stereo guys do this to keep panels from rattling at 150+ DBLs.
Sealing the rust off from the elements that feed it will definately stop the rust from growing-drop a rusty part into a bucket of oil will it keep rusting?-no. The rustfighter coatings are designed for this as they will saturate any surface rust and form a protective coating-if the coating is never compromised the rust will stop growing and go dormant.

Don't put foam in that panel without treating the rust first because it will just act as a sponge holding any moisture and making it rust out faster, and if the rust is loose epoxy will have a hard time sticking-metal needs to be prepped right before any kind of primer is applied period. I've seen areas filled with foam in an effort to keep them sealed from moisture which is the exact opposite from what happens. 2005 Dodge and some Ford pickups have rust holes in the boxsides in this roadsalt region because the factory decided they need an antiflutter foam on some internal areas-just an example of what the foam can cause-keep in mind these trucks have only been in service a few years and now have rustholes through to the exterior as a direct result of the foam antiflutter pads. Numerous GM and Ford cars are also failing in areas around rear wheel openings and fuel doors because the factory used foam in these areas. Anything that holds moisture is no good-period.
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:35 AM
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DO NOT USE EXPANDING FOAM!!!!


The surface tension is stronger than the deflection rate of the steel. Even though you THINK it will rise into the open section, it will push the panel OUT.

Don't even ask me how I know.....

It took me 2 weeks to fix my "ingenious " idea...
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Old 11-28-2006, 08:26 AM
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Better listen to what Been is saying! I saw a fellow attempt to use that stuff in a couple of floats I had built for him and it was amazing what the expansion did to those things and they were welded up with 1/8" steel
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Old 11-28-2006, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Sealing the rust off from the elements that feed it will definately stop the rust from growing-drop a rusty part into a bucket of oil will it keep rusting?-no. The rustfighter coatings are designed for this as they will saturate any surface rust and form a protective coating-if the coating is never compromised the rust will stop growing and go dormant.

Don't put foam in that panel without treating the rust first because it will just act as a sponge holding any moisture and making it rust out faster, and if the rust is loose epoxy will have a hard time sticking-metal needs to be prepped right before any kind of primer is applied period. I've seen areas filled with foam in an effort to keep them sealed from moisture which is the exact opposite from what happens. 2005 Dodge and some Ford pickups have rust holes in the boxsides in this roadsalt region because the factory decided they need an antiflutter foam on some internal areas-just an example of what the foam can cause-keep in mind these trucks have only been in service a few years and now have rustholes through to the exterior as a direct result of the foam antiflutter pads. Numerous GM and Ford cars are also failing in areas around rear wheel openings and fuel doors because the factory used foam in these areas. Anything that holds moisture is no good-period.
No petroleum products in my shop!!!!

I am a painter. No oil allowed!!!

And I know the only permanent solution is "NEW"!
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:40 PM
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Crazy, Yeah, oil and paint don't mix. And I didn't say use the cavity wax stuff in your spraybooth . Who said they need to be applied in your shop? Apply them after all the paintwork is done-no risks that way. Rust removal is the best route but I guarantee you won't open up every area on a 30-40 year old car-there will always be areas that have a degree of corrosion left to haunt you if it isn't treated. And the only permanent solution isn't replace with new because the fact of the matter is the new one will rust out just like the old one if you don't cure the cause of the problem-in this case rust at the seams from a poor manufacturing and refinishing process with no attention to internal corrosion resistance- open up one of these hatches and you'll see it's all bare metal inside. Bob

Last edited by baddbob; 11-29-2006 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:41 PM
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Sorry, Badbob i don't mean to offend. My concern is, in the event that you damage a panel and thus have the need to refinish something, you could really be in for a treat.
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