Strange thing happening with my clear "solvent pop"/"fish eyes" ? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 03-28-2005, 09:54 AM
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I too had a problem like your having and traced it to mixing cup contamination. Switched brands of mixing cups, from the prepackaged waxed paper kind to plastic and took care of the problem.

It did EXACTLY the same thing as you. Thousands of tiny pinholes in the cear after a wetcoat was applied.

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Old 03-28-2005, 06:16 PM
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I'm in agreement on contaminants.
I worked for 3 months (right after highschool) in a body shop and the first car I got to assist on prep work on ended up with paint like you describe. After talking with the owner of the car it was discovered that he used armorall protectant extensively in the car. It was almost impossible to eliminate residue because it transfered so easily from surface to surface. The car was repainted and prep work done more thoroughly the second time around. The fisheye effect was reduced but still present. After that car the shop owner actually made it a point to ask customers if they used such products, and if they did he wouldnt guarantee a perfect paintjob.

Good luck with your problem.
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Old 03-28-2005, 06:34 PM
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There were two problems here.
One was the cold metal and the outside air was about 70. The next problem was fast reducer. With cold metal its the worst thing you can use unless the outside air matches the metal temp because at 70 degrees air temp and 50-55 metal temp the outer coat of the base is going to flash real fast and the bottom part of the base is dormant.
The giveaway? Fish-eye eliminator helped! ONLY by slowing the clear down to let the solvents escape. You could have done the same thing with a shot glass of very slow reducer.

So how will you know/? If you re-clear it the solvents are now in the clear instead of the base, so the first coat of clear will go on fine and its the second coat that will blow up.
What are the odds that the last three cars he had this problem with all had contamination problems. What are the odds it was cold metal on last three cars?
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Old 03-28-2005, 07:04 PM
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What your saying does make since Berry, but there is one thing that got me puzzled.......would solvent pop show up that sudden, becouse it seemed to apper as soon as I was layind down the clear?

I will be painting the truck bed soon, and will be paying extra attention to every step.......

This time I will be laying down a sealer first, and I will also be switching back to medium reducer, laying down lighter coats of base with plenty of flash time in between.

As for the clear, I planning on reducing it 10% and adding a couple drops of fish eye eliminator, because of how well it worked before. Or should I try it mixed it normal?
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Old 03-28-2005, 07:43 PM
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Yes they will show up that fast if the problem is in the base. If its in sealer sometimes will not show up till second coat of clear and same with in the primer.
The deeper the solvent trap the longer it takes to get out.
That is why when I get these calls the first thing I ask is how long did it take to show up, that will give you an idea of where the problem is coming from.
If metal temp issues is not resolved, I would not use sealer as this could add to your Problems.

I would throw away the fish-eye eliminator.

Last edited by BarryK; 03-28-2005 at 07:50 PM. Reason: spelling-duh
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Old 03-28-2005, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Yes they will show up that fast if the problem is in the base. If its in sealer sometimes will not show up till second coat of clear and same with in the primer.
The deeper the solvent trap the longer it takes to get out.
That is why when I get these calls the first thing I ask is how long did it take to show up, that will give you an idea of where the problem is coming from.
If metal temp issues is not resolved, I would not use sealer as this could add to you problems.

I would throw away the fisheye eliminator.

Ok, I'll skip the sealer, but why throw away the fisheye eliminator?
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Old 03-28-2005, 07:52 PM
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Because if you don't have a contaminate problem you will with everything if you keep using it.
So true if your painting in a garage at home (small area)
They also tend to work less than they do work.
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Old 03-28-2005, 07:53 PM
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What clear did you use that required no reducer? I'm don't know much about other products except for PPG/Autocolor. I've demo'd others and don't remember not using reducer. I'm sure there are ones that don't require reducer I'm just checking.
What speed/temp of hardener did you use, too?

I think Barry has point is right on.
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Old 03-28-2005, 07:58 PM
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Switching to Med. temp red. will help but can give you the same problem all though no where near that bad.
Getting the metal temp up is crucial during this time of year.

That Purple/Flame hood I repaired pulled this on me with the first coat of clear,not as bad as your's but still sad using Med. red.,which I blamed on trash in the clear,there was some fine specks of dust in the cup floating around.I dumped the clear back into a clean cup and installed that little filter which goes between the cup and fluid body back into the gun,restrained clear and layed the second coat which layed fine.
Point being, The hood was still probly 55 or so at the first coat.Beings it was a 'glass hood and the heat running the whole time of the gun rework it had got up to a "shootable" temp and thus the real reason the second coat layed down I'm guessing.

The subsquent jr. dragster I shot was done around the same temp BUT, was kept in the shop at 60 and set to 70 in the morning and shot after lunch.
I had no problems what so ever laying the clear.
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Old 03-28-2005, 08:02 PM
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The system being used is Dupont Nason with 4:1 clear.

And yes I know using 4:1 clear is just asking for problems, but I've used it befor with good results

Trust me, if it were up to me I would only use Dupont Chroma series or HOK all the way

But I gata make money, and it is the quick inexpensive jobs that are the most popular around here.

I give my "customers" the choice of what products to use, and always recommend the high end stuff, but all they see is the price deference.

But then again, like I said before........For being a low end product, I am very pleased with the results I have had with Nason in the past, and it is the only low end product I would use.
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Old 03-28-2005, 08:06 PM
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Let me throw this at you!
That Nason is less likely to cause a problem like this than say the good Dupont or Basf or PPG. The better the clear the more sensitive in a case like this.
Be happy thats what you used or you would be 320 and redoing.
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Old 03-28-2005, 08:06 PM
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I've used the "Select" in green /yellow can and it is a nice clear for the $$$ as in cheap. All though, It is a 3:1 mix,which is strange for a cheepie.

The 7500 Chroma series Dupont is a 4:1 and no reduction,Not sure on the 7800,Haven't tried it yet.
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Old 03-28-2005, 08:18 PM
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Its real hard to see from them pictures, but looking at how bad the top of the hoods looks, it sure seems more like contamination to me. How did the bottom of the doors look. If it was dry enuff to tape the two tone off with out the tape eating in to it or peeling it off, its usually good to go. Then again ,metal temp is pretty critical for most clears to kick properly. Im not familiar with nason brands, but most paint lines I have used do have special hardeners( Polar hardeners) for cold weather shops. Hopefully your bed goes better with warmer temps. If all else fails, sacrifice a six-pack to the paint gods and do alittle dance, sometimes that helps.
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Old 03-28-2005, 08:24 PM
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Just wanted to thank everyone for the great advice and impute

Convinced that it was a combination of low temp, and fast reducer trapping solvents giving me the worse case of solvent pop Iíve ever had

for the bed Iím going to get the temp as high as I can, which shouldnít be too hard since we should be getting better weather in the next few days. Depending on how high I can get the temp, will determine whether I spray or skip the sealer. I will be laying down lighter coats of base with plenty of flash time in between. For the clear I will skip the tack coat and just lay down 2 medium coats, and 1 wet coat. Plus I will be reducing the clear 10% for better flow out.

Any other recommendations will be highly appreciated

Thanks again.

Alex. S

PS
I will have a 6 pack handy just in case
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Old 03-28-2005, 08:46 PM
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70-75 is a good temp. No reason to go much higher unless your just wanting to help the utility co. out Main thing is to have the metal STABILIZED at that temp.
70 is the "magic" number and any time your shooting below it those planets seen to have alot more alignment issues I've found.

I'd shoot the first coat "straight" and on a TEST PANEL
Just incase "Their Baaaack".
I really don't see the 10% helping that much outside of helping it to run easier.IMO.
Beds are a major PIA to shoot and runs are going to be high on your list of things to avoid.

One other thing. WHAT clear are you using??
IF it is the Nason Selectclear 497,
Better reread the mix ratio.

Last edited by Bee4Me; 03-28-2005 at 08:55 PM.
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