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Old 08-14-2006, 07:07 PM
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street motor

alright guru's. I have ordered a set of RHS 200cc aluminum heads with 64cc chambers. I have access to either a 400 or a 350(early or late). dont really know what I want to build. would like to make as large displacement as possible and still be street drivable and pump gas. I dont know how hard it will be to get a piston that will allow for pump gas with the 434.
any ideas on what would be the best way to go. I feel that I want to build a real torque monster that would make hp peak at 5500 or a little more and have good torque from very low.

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Old 08-14-2006, 08:12 PM
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Because of your head choice(64cc) you might have a little bit of a hard time finding pistons that will run on the street. Also you will need to have the steam holes drilled to work on the 400. 200cc runners work well on a pretty hot 383, I know that the AFR 195s work well so your 200s will be fine. Just try to keep you compresion up around 10.5:1 so you stay pump gas friendly and put a good cam in her and watch out.

If you can find a set of pistons that will be streetable compression wise that wount break the bank(if your on a budget) go with the 434. Just my .02.
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Old 08-14-2006, 08:22 PM
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thanks for the advise. when I ordered the heads I had thought I was building a 383 or 396. will still do that if I have to but would like the cubes if possible. anyone know of a dished piston for a long rod combo with the 434 setup
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Old 08-14-2006, 08:34 PM
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I searched Jegs.com and Summit.com beofre I answered to see if you could go with the 434 and keep your compression in check to no avail. Im sure your could call up Ross and have them make a set for you at a pretty price, I know I had them make me a custom set for a 1.8l vw a few years back. I will keep searching though.
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Old 08-14-2006, 08:38 PM
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cool thanks.
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Old 08-15-2006, 12:02 AM
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Wiseco makes one with a 20cc dish that should be right up your alley. Off the shelf so the $$$ will be cheaper than having a set made. Part # is K209A3, but they do require a 5.850 rod.
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Old 08-16-2006, 07:35 AM
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200cc seem a little big to be making low rpm torque.

You can get a custom set of pistons for 800 to 1000 dollars from any of the major piston manufacturers. But they will be forged which makes a noisy street engine when cold.

The engine you are describing, I would use a 406 or 383 with a set of 170cc Edelbrock RPM heads (64cc chambers). A roller hyd cam with 212 intake and 212 exhaust with 110 LSA. Use Keith Black 12cc D-dish on the 383 for 10.1:1 cr or 22cc D-dishes for 5.7 inch rod with the 406 for 9.7:1 cr. And get the block zero decked for a good quench area.

Sure a 415 or 434 would make more power, but is it worth the extra money to you? It all depends on your budget.
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Old 08-16-2006, 10:24 AM
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Street Motor

You made a good choice on heads, I've used several of them. A 434 or 421 makes a great high horsepower low rpm engine. With the cubes you are going to have plenty of torque. If you are going to do a lot of street driving I would suggest something with a shorter stroke, long stroke and long rods are killer on cylinder walls with steady mid rpm driving. A 383 with the heads you have and a hydraulic roller cam you would be surprised what can be achieved. JE/SRP makes a good piston that works well on the street and track that would fit the application. You could produce a 500 hp engine that runs on pump gas and is very streetable. And if you need a extra 100 or so hp bolt on a nitrous kit, the pistons will handle it. If I can help let me know.
[URL=www.performanceparts.com]
Dave
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Old 08-16-2006, 12:05 PM
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Check out this site. Go the bottom of the page The Edelbrock RPM results are on page 3 and the RHS on page 5

chevyhiperformance.com/tech/engines_drivetrain/cams_heads_valvetrain/0606ch_cylinder_head_performance_test


Chevy High Performance magazine tested 8 cylinder heads on a 383 with the same mild cam.

The Edlebrock PRM heads made 33 more ftlbs of torque at 3300 rpm and made 29 more peak hp (at 5500 rpm) as compared to the RHS 200cc head. Furthermore the Edlebrocks averaged 405hp and 458ftlbs while the RHS 200cc averaged 381hp and 432ftlbs.

Based on this test, I would say the Edelbrock RPM heads would be better for a street 383.
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Old 08-16-2006, 12:29 PM
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Street Motor

That's fine, but what cam are they using, how is it degreed in,what intake, what carb,what compression? There is a lot more to making a engine run than just puting a cylinder head on it. Thou Edelbrock has a good head you have to know more than just the head. The RHS head might have a more consistant RPM band in the mid range with the same components which would be better for a medium to heavy car and make it seem it has unbalievable power. Then again the other heads might make more peak RPM power but not have anything in the mid range. All I was commenting on was the heads the guy has already purchased. Not saying one is better than the other. Of course neither one will be worth a crap if you don't match the components to each other. Have you ever looked at the Vortec head. It will out perform all of the aluminum heads in the 200 cc range up to a max .500 lift. And that is with 1.940/1.500 valves.

Dave
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Old 08-16-2006, 01:16 PM
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I do see what you mean. He has the RHS heads already. However, he can sell them and get a better pair. 25hp and 30 ftlbs is a lot. Plus the flow numbers are so much better with the RPM's even with smaller ports. And the RPM's made more power everywhere, not just a certain rpms.

They also tested the vortec heads and made 469ftlbs at 3300 rpm and 430hp at 5300 rpm. Max torque was 489 for the votecs (3900 rpm), 490 for the edelbrocks (3900rpm), and 468 ftlbs for the RHS.

vortec averaged 445ft-lbs and 392hp
RPM's averaged 458ft-lbs and 405hp
RHS averaged 432ft-lbs and 381hp

But, you are right on the compression. I read it a little closer and the RHS head used in the test is a 72cc combustion chamber as compared to 64cc for the vortecs and edelbrocks. This would lower the RHS compression by 0.7:1 cr. A pretty big difference that would account for some of the power drop.
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Old 08-16-2006, 01:50 PM
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That's one of the few tests that I think is fairly well represented. Typical grind camshaft that most folks would center around and back to back to back tests on the same dyno.

It supports what we have found on the dyno over the past few years, for what they are Edelbrock heads make power and the RHS/Topline heads lag. They are not aweful heads but just don't seem to perform like some other options in the price range.
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Old 08-16-2006, 02:55 PM
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I looked at the article on that page. you also have to realize that the rhs heads are cast iron and not alum and from what I have found seem to flow quite a bit less than the same alum heads.
I dont know if that is a fact but seems from what I have seen. I havent done any hot rod stuff in a long time so am really just a rookie with all this stuff but have been trying to freshen up on all of it and make some decent decisions.
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Old 08-16-2006, 03:15 PM
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another question, do you all think that the 434 would be not a good street motor
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Old 08-16-2006, 07:59 PM
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dejo, I have a 383 with Edelbrock Etec 200 heads. They are aluminum, have 200cc intake runners, 64 cc combustion chambers using fastburn technology, and 2.02 intake valves. Dimensionaly, they are very close to your heads. I agonized over these heads vice the Etec 170 which has the smaller intake runners as well as the 1.95 intake valves and the same combustion chambers. On paper, the 170 was a better selection for low RPM power and torque but I went with the 200 because the motor is in a 2600 pound pickup and is over powered and torqued so building for more low end is a waste of effort. If you are puting the motor in a lead sled, then you may want more low end stuff, but if you are staying under 3500#s, I think you are on the right track. Flat top pistons will keep you in the pump gas range, but you definitely will want to run 93 octane. Again, I think the weight of the vehicle you are going to put the motor in will be a big part of the equation of going 383, 406 or 434. The heavier, the bigger the cubes would serve you well.

Trees
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