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Old 01-17-2012, 11:35 PM
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From street to strip setup 355 with 305 heads

So currently i have a '68 Nova with a 30 over 350 (355), 4 bolt main, Flat top pistons... i have a mild flat tapped hydraulic cam (no cam card/dont know lift etc.) and a set of 2.02/1.60 valve heads that have reseated new valves, stiffer springs, shorter studs and 1.5:1 roller rocker arms and have also been port matched. Attached is a single plane aluminum edelbrock performer intake and a 650 edelbrock carb.

Moving down the line i have a turbo 400 tranny with a 2500 stall torque converter and a 3.73 posi rear end and ceramic coated hooker headers to a custom exhaust. My fastest run is this car with this setup was a 14.7 at 98 MPH on a cool night.

Basically i have the opportunity to get a set of 305 heads (for free) off a 78 nova, have the valves opened to 2.02/1.60 and have it port matched to my intake for $100 a head. I would like to change the studs an put my roller rockers on the 305 heads. Are the studs and rockers able to be interchanged?

Next i want to pair these heads with a beefy hydraulic roller cam

(ex. http://www.compperformancegroupstore...egory_Code=HRM

Good fit?

Also up my torque converter to 3500 stall, up my carb to 750 cfm at least and maybe look into 4.11 gears.

I want to take my nova into the 11s/12s if possible with this setup, so i have some questions.

Will this setup work even if i dont hit the 1/4 mile times i want? If not what suggestions do you have.

What issues might i run into installing the heads on the 355?

What compression ratio am i looking at with this setup (if it works)?

What type of top end issues would i be facing (RPM and distance on track)?



Thank you for your responses.

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Old 01-18-2012, 12:50 AM
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Don't waste your time or money on a set of 305 heads. Even so with the cheap price your facing a few problems. Stuffing huge valves in them hurt flow instead of helping it, why? The valves are already shrouded with the stock 1.84 inch valve sizes, when you throw in 2.02's they're really shrouded.
Sure you can sweep the chambers but only so much before it gets too close to a head bolt hole which is where a crack will form. You want more horsepower? You want to lower your ET? then do so with a real set of heads, get some aftermarket heads with 64cc chambers and around 180cc intake runners. You can take the big valves you already got and drop them right into the new heads. However, since you don't know the cam size the next thing I would do is change it so I knew what I had then get the springs to match it. Another issue with going with 305 heads is the small chambers, add in flat top pistons and you'd have to run race gas at 10 bucks a gallon to keep it out of detonation.
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
Don't waste your time or money on a set of 305 heads. Even so with the cheap price your facing a few problems. Stuffing huge valves in them hurt flow instead of helping it, why? The valves are already shrouded with the stock 1.84 inch valve sizes, when you throw in 2.02's they're really shrouded.
Sure you can sweep the chambers but only so much before it gets too close to a head bolt hole which is where a crack will form. You want more horsepower? You want to lower your ET? then do so with a real set of heads, get some aftermarket heads with 64cc chambers and around 180cc intake runners. You can take the big valves you already got and drop them right into the new heads. However, since you don't know the cam size the next thing I would do is change it so I knew what I had then get the springs to match it. Another issue with going with 305 heads is the small chambers, add in flat top pistons and you'd have to run race gas at 10 bucks a gallon to keep it out of detonation.

I dont have the money to buy a set of vortec heads or anything aluminum and the heads now are not bad considering I also got them for free. The 305 heads are 416 casting code heads and have under 70k miles. The work on them is cheap simply cause the people i know. with 58cc? chambers and opening the valves to 2.02/1.60 with a complete port match and polish wouldnt i get the compression boost without sacrificing much flow compared to the 350 heads i have now?

Also if 2.02/1.60 is to great a seat for the heads would a 1.94/1.60 with longer duration do better?

As for ET I want to get close to my dad and gramps 57 bel air that runs 10.98 with a naturally aspirated unassisted 502 bb. Show them a sb can perform in a heavy car close the that of their bb with low costs.

with long durations of a bigger cam not much would be left in the combustion chamber allowing for clean and effectient burning. I am planning on running 110 octane or higher if needed. Basically my nova will be streetable, but wont ever be on the street lol also thinking compressed steel gaskets (copper spray shim steel head gasket)... thoughts?

Last edited by tyhansen; 01-18-2012 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:04 AM
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Let me explain it like this: Flow Is Power. You can run 12:1 compression. But without flow it won't do you any good. To make the 305 heads do anything you would have to perform a full port job and if you've never ported heads before this is not recommended. You can get a set of RHS Vortec heads bare for around $500. Or, summit racing carries sets of the GM vortec heads at a good price as well. Just by bolting on Vortec heads you would pick up 30 horses. To state the importance of flow, let me phrase it like this,
I would rather have high flow and low compression than low flow and high compression if it was pick one. In the real world we want both.
If you want to prove that you can make a small block scream then your going to need a better set of heads than the 416s got to offer.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:54 AM
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Heads

I agree with Doublevision. Just wait until you can afford a good set of aluminum heads. Even buy one at a time as you get the money. I like the AFR's. The starting price of a full port job is around $1500 thats another reason to buy new heads. Then you still have a set of heads with old technology. Good luck. Is the quench over .040 the reason for the steel shim gaskets? This will have to be measured to know what thickness gasket to use.

Last edited by cdminter59; 01-18-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:19 AM
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I disagree with your statement
Quote:
Show them a sb can perform in a heavy car close the that of their bb with low costs.

I hate to be the guy to suggest them but here ya go ... http://store.procompelectronics.com/...eads-bare.aspx
I know a lot of people on here don't like them but cant beat $250. Put some manley valves in them and whatever springs you want for your cam. You will never come close to their ET with the setup you have. Maybe think about using some spray if you are gonna back up your talk about small blocks. Otherwise look into a 400+ci engine. My machinist has a 434ci sbc with 15* alum heads in a 2200lb nova and he runs 9s... he also has about $20,000 into his engine and he got a lot of great deal on the stuff he has. To do the motor from scratch I bet it would be $35-40K. I realize this is faster than what you are talking about but I'm trying to show you that you can't say I want to run 10s and not spend any money... it don't happen.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:06 AM
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With the money you will waste on a retro fit roller cam and kit, you can buy a decent set of hi perf cylinder heads.

Get a good hyd or solid lifter flat tappet cam.

Brodix-Summit racing IK 200 heads.

If you were to go the 305 head swap route:

305 heads need full porting. Much more than just a port match.
A simple port match is not enough of a gain.
The meat and potatoes (flow gain) is found deep in the port.
The whole port needs to be generously done.

You would want to use 1.94" intake valves, not 2.02" in these heads.
The key to going the 305 head on a 350 is to Fully port the heads, yourself.

You money is better spent on true hi perf heads than a expensive retro fit hyd roller cam.

Another way to go is to F U L L Y PORT your present heads and then supercharge the motor. Weiand holley 144-177 cid blower.

You wont have to change gears, the converter is fine.
A better blower friendly flat tappet cam and lifters is very cheap.
EG: Lunati #401A3LUN
EG comp cam #12-250-3 XE284H-10
Lots of choices.
This and the full effort home port job on your present heads will maximize the supercharger power gain.

You need a big big power gain to get in the 11's. 500+hp

Supercharging is a easy and streetable way to get there.

What is the casting number of the heads you got now?
This is where you want to start.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 01-18-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 04:08 PM
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The Brodix summit racing heads are way beyond a price range for this as i am a broke college student however the post with the $250 heads from zildjian4life218. They may be a doable source for heads if i need to go that far. I do not know the casting number on my heads at the moment but when i get time in the next day or so i will be sure to share.

I was hoping to get within at least a second of them without dropping weight using an unassisted sbc (no nitrous, charger, turbo etc.) You dont think this is possible on a small "college student budget"?

I am not a fan of spray simply because I have cast setup without forged/hypereutectic pistons and crank. I mean it is still not completely left out because careful use of spray say 75/150 shot is doable with cast considering many tuning processes such as 2 degrees of retardation per 50 hp shot (think thats right) and making sure that it is not lean at all for detonation purposes. Currently i have a HEI distributor so switching to a MSD box and coil would almost have to be manditory at that point, yes?

I dont know a lot about nitrous but enough to know that forged is the way to go. It does also happen to be that a friend of mine is looking to part ways with a 150 shot wet kit. What kind of cam setup should i look for if i went the nitrous direction (keeping current heads with additional work done to them)?
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyhansen

I was hoping to get within at least a second of them without dropping weight using an unassisted sbc (no nitrous, charger, turbo etc.) You dont think this is possible on a small "college student budget"?
I would start thinking about weight reduction on the car. There is no way to take a heavy car and use a cheap small block and move it fast. It doesn't work. Weight and power are key to going fast. I have been a broke *** college student for the past 5 years so I know how it is. I picked up some vortec heads for $60 at the local u-pull for my 355. have them rebuilt and you will be better off.

I think for a 3000lb car every 100lbs is a tenth off your et. I mean your not gonna take a second off the car from weight reduction but you will get on your way.

Also get a better intake.. the edelbrock performers arent supposed to flow very well. I got my performer rpm off ebay used for $100 and was cleaned up and looked brand new when I got it minus a little scratch.

In my olds i ran a 13.8 with a 350 with a cam and stock heads and aftermarket intake and carb.

Last edited by zildjian4life218; 01-18-2012 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:45 AM
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You seem hell bent on spending your limited money on everything besides what will make real power and a big difference.

Start by weighing your car w driver. 78 novas are pigs.

You know the car does 98 MPH in the quarter now. From this you can calc the present engines power and calc how much horsepower gain you will need to hit a desired faster MPH in that car.

By the time you purchase all the stuff you will need to change, you will have far exceeded the price of decent heads and met the price of the supercharger kit.

Nitrous is a pay as you go system. Eventually, sooner rather than later it costs much more than if you just bought the blower. You never actually own the performance.

Note : if you want to get this pig into the 11's you will need a 116 to 121 drag MPH.
You will need gears, converter, retro fit kit for the cam, intake carb etc etc etc.

The best you are going to do with fully correctly ported large valve 305 heads is about 410- 425hp. Thats with all the other supporting hardware included.
Thats assuming you actually do the required port work on the heads.
It won't happen with just a port match job.

Check my old posts on porting 305 heads as a reference.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 01-19-2012 at 06:03 AM.
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