I'm planning to use a big cam in my next engine and it calls for a 2500 stall minumum. I know that will greatly help my launching capabilities, but there's the adverse effect of more slippage. I know I will need a trans cooler to run this on the highway. My question is, for those of you who drive high stall cars on the street, what is the biggest difference in how the car feels over a stock stall when cruising or lightly accelerating? My biggest drawback with a high stall is backing out of a tight parking spot and having the car jump too fast, as well as losing considerable mileage to slippage and higher RPMs. Another thing is the added stress on the rest of the drivetrain from the huge torque multiplication when I step on it and it hooks.
A high stall convertor doesn't jump into gear. Just the opposite. In a stock vehicle you would think your tranny is slipping. It's similar to riding the clutch in a 4 speed.
It does run hotter. The more stall the hotter the tranny will get. Buy the stall that is recommended by the cam manufacturer.
TCI recommends a tranny cooler and to bypass the stock rad cooler unless you drive in temperatures below 0 deg F.
A 2800 stall doesn't mean it has to get up to 2800 to move, just means you can dump that much into it without it stalling. Makes for better takeoffs:thumbup:
My 2500 stall feels like a regular converter except it doesn't try to creep so hard at idle. When I step on it to accelerate normally, it does just that.
Mine's a lockup so normal driving mileage isn't affected.
Only when you mash the loud pedal from a standing start does the "stall" really kick in - it lets the engine get up to the stall speed before it "connects" and takes ahold.
My 2500 stall feels like a regular converter except it doesn't try to creep so hard at idle. When I step on it to accelerate normally, it does just that.
Mine's a lockup so normal driving mileage isn't affected.
Only when you mash the loud pedal from a standing start does the "stall" really kick in - it lets the engine get up to the stall speed before it "connects" and takes ahold.
I agree with everyone. I have a car that gets driven on weekends that has a 5000 stall, and as far as driveability goes, it is fine. I would not take my car on the highway with that stall, but with 4.88 gears and a powerglide I wouldent take it on the highway anyway.
mine is a 2500. I have a big cube smallblock and it goes pretty decently, but it flashes very easily, and when you rev it up in first and just keep it in gear, then let off it drops about 1500 R's, then you have to wind it back up to where it was to pick up speed. THe stall works both ways-
Some good advice so far and some that is not quite accurate. A "stall" converter can vreate more heat in the tranny. After years of driving around with anywhere from 2500-3500 stalls in my car with a tranny temp guage (which most guys don't even run) I can tell you a 2500 stall will not build much heat at all. I would still suggest running a tranny cooler with any stall over stock. My tranny temp guage very rarely moved much, never got anywhere near hot (except when I granaded the tranny).
The cheaper converters tend to slip more and produce more heat. A well made converter will only slip depending on how much torque is applied. Meaning the same converter (lets say 2500RPM) behind a 150HP small block and a 900HP big block will "stall" at drastically different RPMs.
To answer your question a 2500 stall will be no problem on the street. You will get slightly worse gas mileage.
I run a 3500 stall and have no problem cruising on the highway in OD (non lock-up), if I am cruising at 65MPH and 2700RPM the converter is not slipping, if I romp on it it will flash to about 3500-3700. No heat problems at all. The quality of the converter will make all the difference in the world, I ran a budget converter and that thing slipped real bad off the line and felt like another gear when it finally reached it's stall speed, it was very poor for performance.
a 2500 stall is nothing i have a 2500 and my car will still move in drive when i let off the brake. Its when you get over 3200 it starts becoming farely noticable but still driveable. A couple people over on ls1 tech drive 4400s with drag radials on there daily drivers, this mean in the rain. So i would worry about a 2500. My stall only "jumps" if you give it a lot of gas. If you are easy on the gas its just like people have been saying its like riding the clutch.
I asked a question like this over in the transmission/rearend forum but no response. I was wondering if a 2800 to 3200 stall in a th350 with tranny cooler and 456 gears would burn my tranny up. dont cruise on freeway just around town and drag race on weekends. Im running a 2500 stall now my cam power range is from 1800 to 6000 would i gain much as far as 60ft times going to the 3000 stall? thanks john.
Some people like the feel of big stalls on the street and others don't. I have friends who love their 4000 stalls on daily drivers. But, I don't like the feel of even a 2000 stall. I don't like the feeling of an automatic transmisson slipping when driving around town. But if the cam needs it, that is what you need to use. And yes, it is important to get a quality converter, like a Hughes.
Your car will still move in gear at idle with a 2500 stall. However, when you hit the gas (at least 1/2 throttle) it will flash up to 2500. And plan on lossing 1 or 2 mpg.
I see no reason not to use what your car needs. My converter will flash to 3800 off idle and I have no problems with overheating at all. I have a huge tranny cooler but I knew going in that I would need it with the converter.
I was wondering if a 2800 to 3200 stall in a th350 with tranny cooler and 456 gears would burn my tranny up. dont cruise on freeway just around town and drag race on weekends.
I don't like the loss of mpg, I'm planning on running a hot 406 so gas mileage will already be poor. I got a lot of the parts for it already so I don't want to change the cam and I guess I'm stuck with the higher stall. Guess I'll have to get used to it.
Your shifts might be a little softer I installed a 3,500 stall in a chevell I use to halve and hated how it shifted and later installed a B&M full comp trans pack it was a daily driver for 2 years.If you want a lockup overdrive trany a 200R4 will bolt rite in place of a TH350 with no mods but a new shifter.
I have a 700R4 with a neck breaker shift kit, will get rubber every shift under full throttle, so it may be a good thing to soften the shifts a bit. When I bought the T/A it already came with it.
BTW this motor is replacing the 350 in my T/A, making it the third motor swap in this car.
Do you halve sub frame connectors there a must in a camaro if you decide to pout alot of power at it or your going to twist it up and ruin the car my father did it to a 72 vega.Your car is a lot stronger then a vega but it can still happen.
The stall will feel a little "funky" at first, but after a while, you will grow to hate driving auto cars WITHOUT one I've had a 3000 stall for about 5 years now, but with my new motor, I really need a higher one (3500 - 4000). Your shifts at WOT will be exactly like they are now, but you'll be glad you have that shift kit for part throttle street driving shifts. Cars with a regular auto (IE no shift kit) and a high stall feel "mushy" on part throttle shifts whereas the the others feel good.
Your mileage in town is definately going to feel a hit, but if you get a lockup unit, you wont see a difference out on the highway (or anything else that gets you into lockup). Trans cooler is mandatory, and I recommend getting one with it's own fan. Getting stuck in stop and go traffic can get the trans temps up a bit, but not bad at all with a <3000 converter. The cooler completely gets rid of the problem.
BTW, if your dropping in a 406 with a 3000 stall and a decent gear, your might wanna check out your rearend too. TRUST ME, the 10 bolt will NOT hold up to heavy power. It will snap like a twig on slicks. I'm on my 3rd (and last!)
My suspension is totally maxed out, by that I'm saying that every part that could be upgraded is already upgraded with about the best I could get for road handling, and that includes subframe connectors.
I plan on putting in a ford 9" rear end with a posi and 3.73 gears, a heavily built 700R4 tranny with a gear vendors over/under unit, a beefy drive shaft, BFGoodrich drag radials, and some massive kahunas before this 406 ever sees it's first revs.
I will definitely get a lockup and a heavy duty trans cooler as well. This will be the first car I have ever driven with a higher than stock stall in it.
Road handling you say? Then run the smallest and tightest converter you can find (i've seen and bought some 10" 2500s off ebay).... unless it's for drag racing and in that case road race style suspension is prone to not hooking up.
I run 10 inch converters in my 57 and my S-10. I can say that a converter designed specifically to your vehicle is the way to go. The 57 has a TCI street fighter which is supposed to stall at 3500RPM. It is pretty mushy and the shifts are pretty soft. It will flash to about 4200 behind the NA 400. That is really a little bit high for the setup, but it was perfect with the old 350 at about 3800 flash speed. It is a good example of what Royce is talking about.
The S-10 on the other hand is a custom built converter by a little company in Abilene called Torco. They build/sell Art Carr converters under a different name from what I am told. Anyway, it is guaranteed to stall the correct RPM and they will rebuild it from now on for $100 a pop. It actually has a custom built billet back plate similiar to the cheap welded backplate on the TCI high end converters but all one piece with 1/2" thick mounting tabs and integrated hub. All this for $300 delivered to my door in one week. I will never use anyone else.
The difference in the S-10 convertor is that when it hits the flash speed it does not push past it if you are not accelerating(or the trans is low on fluid....dont ask) and the shifts are much firmer than my 57. Vehicle wieght is one thing that not getting a custom converter will really show effects on. I think that is the main reason the street fighter stalls 700RPM over what it is advertised.
You will hardly know a difference with a 2500 RPM converter since that is barely over stock. You move up to a 3500 and things start feeling strange at first. You will swear the tranmission is slipping untill you get used to it. When you get used to it, it is great.
yeah, this is a road handling car, I plan on road racing it a bit, like pro touring style, when everything is said and done. But for the most part it will function as a very hot street machine that I can do some serious corner carving in.
I mentioned Drag Radials because I am part of a Camaro/Firebird club in Edmonton that hosts drag race weekends every once in a while. I have completely adjustable suspension components that enables me to tune it for a good drag launch, then be able to re-tune it for road race handling.
As far as hooking up, Drag Radials are good into the 8 second bracket traction wise, and I'm only setting myself up for maybe mid 11's, plus a 2500 stall is not a neck breaking launch.
TurboS10, I would most certainly like some more information on Torco, such as their website (if they have one), whether they will ship to Canada, and if they have any converters for my application. $300 is a great price for a converter that is guaranteed to stall at the correct RPM, which is what I am after.
I use a 5500 stall on the street and wouldn't have it any other way the car is set up to drag race and thats what it does,It is something you must get used too but at the same time when you mash it and shift it it doesn't get any better than that!!!!!I also run a full spool on the street and I love the looks i get when i pull in a tight parking spot!!!But some also say I'm a sicko! It's all what YOU can tolerate.I like my street car to be obnoxious!!
I dont think they have a website, and I just call information for the number. You can get the number on any directory website I am sure. The town is Abilene, TX. If you cant find them, I can sift through my receipts and find you something.
You will need to know gear ratio, weight, power output(torque), and torque peak for them to nail it. You can approximate torque, but it needs to be real close since that is the biggest factor. I told them 800lb/ft and it is stalling just a little shy of the 3800 mark so I know when I get everything tuned it should be dead on.
Chris
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