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  #376 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2008, 10:20 PM
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Didn't get an answer to my question. I may have to just email the reporter for the Miami New Times, or the other media outlets that the article says covered this: the Miami Herald, Car and Driver, the Los Angeles Times, Inside Edition, and the Associated Press.

This is what it's looking like to me:

----------
1. George Levin buys Classic Motor Carriages in 1978.

2. By 1994, the State of Florida had amassed 900 complaints against Classic Motor Carriages, and the Florida Attorney General's Office sued them.

3. Classic Motor Carriages's sales plummeted, they were evicted from their headquarters, and they closed down.

4. George Levin launched a new company called Auto Resolutions.

5. In 1999, the case had made its way through the court system, and Classic Motor Carriages had to pay nearly $3 million in fines for fraudulent business practices.

6. At the same time, Auto Resolutions began selling kits under the brand name Street Beasts.
----------

So, the exact same guy that owned Classic Motor Carriages started StreetBeast after CMC got busted by the State of Florida for fraud?

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  #377 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2008, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
I'm no sucker...... You on the other hand actually paid for a StreetBeast. I think that says it all.
For the stunt you just pulled and without shame, TURN IN YOUR WAND.

When you demand of a Vendor a FREE KIT CAR of YOUR CHOICE that you will supposedly build (Unbiased? You?) for your PERSONAL GAIN, is a COMPLETE ABUSE OF YOUR POWER.

You were even offered a car to build that would be auctioned off for CHARITY! NICE!

Do us a favor and restore the integrity of the board. TURN IN YOUR WAND.

You're shameless and without integrity.

Jay K.
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  #378 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2008, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGK95
For the stunt you just pulled and without shame, TURN IN YOUR WAND.

When you demand of a Vendor a FREE KIT CAR of YOUR CHOICE that you will supposedly build (Unbiased? You?) for your PERSONAL GAIN, is a COMPLETE ABUSE OF YOUR POWER.

You were even offered a car to build that would be auctioned off for CHARITY! NICE!

Do us a favor and restore the integrity of the board. TURN IN YOUR WAND.

You're shameless and without integrity.

Jay K.
You're a real piece of work. I demanded??? Not hardly, I simply offered to take Grandpa Cobra up on his challenge. Then StreetBeastopsguy puts preconditions on the deal which would force me to GIVE StreetBeast a complete drivetrain and a year's free labor. Typical of StreetBeast though. They just love to take advantage of their customers.

Fortunately I've been around the block a few times and can smell a con artist a mile away and the fact that I would under no conditions pay for a Streetbeast just shows that I have WAY more sense than you.

Just look at your kit. Their quality control is so bad you already have to ask them to replace a hub, and you've just started your build. I sincerely hope you don't have similar problems as the build goes on but considering the company you're dealing with it wouldn't surprise me at all if you do.

One last note, please refrain from name calling. It's considered a personal attack. If you have a problem with how I conduct my moderator duties then talk to Jon. Till then please do everyone a favor and go back out in the garage, open your instruction manual and see if you can figure out what you're supposed to do next.
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  #379 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
I'll make you guys a deal. I've been one of your loudest critics for years but..... If your company is willing to provide me with a Cobra kit free of charge (no way I'd do one of your 33 coupes or Vickys), I'll come to Miami and pick it up. Then I'll document the complete build with totally non biased commentary for the general public to read. I'll post it here or wherever you want and I'll let you guys preview the comments and discuss any heart burn you might have with them before they are posted. I'll call out all the good and the bad without editorializing in any way. Now that's fair. Deal or no Deal???
Quoted for posterity.
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  #380 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
Didn't get an answer to my question. I may have to just email the reporter for the Miami New Times, or the other media outlets that the article says covered this: the Miami Herald, Car and Driver, the Los Angeles Times, Inside Edition, and the Associated Press.

This is what it's looking like to me:

----------
1. George Levin buys Classic Motor Carriages in 1978.

2. By 1994, the State of Florida had amassed 900 complaints against Classic Motor Carriages, and the Florida Attorney General's Office sued them.

3. Classic Motor Carriages's sales plummeted, they were evicted from their headquarters, and they closed down.

4. George Levin launched a new company called Auto Resolutions.

5. In 1999, the case had made its way through the court system, and Classic Motor Carriages had to pay nearly $3 million in fines for fraudulent business practices.

6. At the same time, Auto Resolutions began selling kits under the brand name Street Beasts.
----------

So, the exact same guy that owned Classic Motor Carriages started StreetBeast after CMC got busted by the State of Florida for fraud?
Jon,

I haven't only built CMC's kits, I was building Kit Cars since before I even joined CMC and I have helped people build a number of different cars and kits and I can say this without any reservation at all weather it is a Cobra, a Street Beast, a T bucket, a dune buggy, a Ferrari, or a 32 Highboy, if it is made of fiberglass and the customer has to put it together out of a box, they all have the same sort of problems with fit, finish, and availability of parts.

I want you to consider for a second what the name "Auto Resolution" means we all know what an "Auto" is, but "Resolution" doesn't exactly fit with the purpose of selling kit cars now does it? That is because Auto Resolution was created to resolve the complaints that CMC had lodged against it.

I'd be a fool to even try to say that CMC didn't have complaints but not all of those complaints were CMC's fault. Most were generated by one man who swore he would shut down CMC because CMC refused to advertise in his yearly round up of all the kit car kits available.

Using various means (including a source inside CMC's Management) he was able to access CMC's computer customer base and sent official looking letters out to customers telling them that they could get their money back and inferring that they could also keep their kits as well.

Once upon a time I had one of those letters sent to me at CMC by a customer who actually loved his car and wouldn't part with it for the world. The day I left CMC it was still in the small office I used to answer technical questions and more importantly solve customer complaints.

And he was also able to contact vendors and tell them not to sell parts to CMC while he was also telling CMC's customers that they would never get their back ordered parts from CMC. It was a cruel little Morbius loop in which he used expand CMC's Backlog by increasing customers demand while shutting off their supply from their vendors. As part of R&D at the time I had contacts with vendors and was told how they were threatened with legal action if they continued to sell parts to CMC. Imagine that telling customers they won't get their parts all while telling vendors not to sell CMC parts

I believe most of the myths about CMC are based upon this same vicious little man who has never published newer edition of his buyers guide since CMC jerked their ads from his pages.

I also believe or rather I know from experience that the concerns about CMC's quality can be applied equally to any fiberglass car that has to be built by a customer no matter who makes the car or kit.

In all fairness in bashing CMC no one, especially not CMC's competitors, has ever said that their kits suffer from the same sort of problems , but I will and anyone with any experience building fiberglass cars of any type should admit it as well.

Which brings us back to easy to build doesn't it?

I know from actually talking to people that those that believe that they can will and that those that believe that they cannot won't and I know that the Cars that Street Beasts builds today can be built and are being built.

What I want to know is why someone that sells a bare T Bucket shell and expects the customer to supply everything else to build the car including the frame is treated with more respect than a company that tries to sell as complete a car as is economically possible.
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  #381 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 06:09 AM
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You seem to speak with intelligence and experience. If what you said is true,was this mean little man and the insider ever brought to court and found guilty as charged?
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  #382 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 06:27 AM
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Let's just say that the vicious little man has a legal injunction that bars him from ever using the Name Classic Motor Carriages or attacking Street Beasts by name in his defunct annual or his website.

As for the insider, I have no clue what happened to him, but I suppose that part of the reason there even is a Street Beast today, instead of an empty warehouse, is that his duplicity was proved.

I have to go to work now, after writing all this I have a butt pucker factor that is off the scale.



Me at the old factory removing the hinge bolts for the Cobra Hood...

That car is in my area even today fifteen years later.
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  #383 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 06:37 AM
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Jon,

I agree with several others, Centerline has crossed the line. Restore some integrity please.

Gordon
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  #384 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Cobra
Jon,

I haven't only built CMC's kits, I was building Kit Cars since before I even joined CMC and I have helped people build a number of different cars and kits and I can say this without any reservation at all weather it is a Cobra, a Street Beast, a T bucket, a dune buggy, a Ferrari, or a 32 Highboy, if it is made of fiberglass and the customer has to put it together out of a box, they all have the same sort of problems with fit, finish, and availability of parts.
What a line of bull. Lets compare kits for a minute.

My body came with the doors hung and aligned, electric window regulators installed, bear-claw latches installed, and trunk hung and aligned. If I want fenders I can go to any one of dozens of manufactures and purchase glass or repo-steel and if they were made for a 32 Ford they will fit. My frame is a boxed 32 Ford repo and gives me the choice of bolting on a stock style front suspension with hairpins, a four bar front suspension, or a number of different IFS systems. My rear suspension choices are anything from a transverse leaf setup with ladder bars to a triangulated four bar, to coil-overs and a panhard bar, and that's just the most popular ones. And you know what??? My body and frame together didn't cost half what a StreetBeast kit runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Cobra
I want you to consider for a second what the name "Auto Resolution" means we all know what an "Auto" is, but "Resolution" doesn't exactly fit with the purpose of selling kit cars now does it? That is because Auto Resolution was created to resolve the complaints that CMC had lodged against it.
This doesn't make sense. Why would the owner start another company for this purpose. Given the owner's business practices to that point in time I'm sure the purpose was to continue to sell kit cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Cobra
I'd be a fool to even try to say that CMC didn't have complaints but not all of those complaints were CMC's fault.
It doesn't matter if an active campeign was launched, from what I read back then 99% had merit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Cobra
Most were generated by one man who swore he would shut down CMC because CMC refused to advertise in his yearly round up of all the kit car kits available

Using various means (including a source inside CMC's Management) he was able to access CMC's computer customer base and sent official looking letters out to customers telling them that they could get their money back and inferring that they could also keep their kits as well
Once upon a time I had one of those letters sent to me at CMC by a customer who actually loved his car and wouldn't part with it for the world. The day I left CMC it was still in the small office I used to answer technical questions and more importantly solve customer complaints.

And he was also able to contact vendors and tell them not to sell parts to CMC while he was also telling CMC's customers that they would never get their back ordered parts from CMC. It was a cruel little Morbius loop in which he used expand CMC's Backlog by increasing customers demand while shutting off their supply from their vendors. As part of R&D at the time I had contacts with vendors and was told how they were threatened with legal action if they continued to sell parts to CMC. Imagine that telling customers they won't get their parts all while telling vendors not to sell CMC parts ..
That's your story. Curt Scott's version is quite different. And... if he did the things you say he did then he would be publishing KitCar.com from jail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Cobra
I believe most of the myths about CMC are based upon this same vicious little man who has never published newer edition of his buyers guide since CMC jerked their ads from his pages.

I also believe or rather I know from experience that the concerns about CMC's quality can be applied equally to any fiberglass car that has to be built by a customer no matter who makes the car or kit.
Although any fiberglass body needs a lot of preparation before its ready to paint most are at least representative of the original car and allow the use of pretty much any part made for the original. StreetBeast does not. The customer is FORCED to purchase major replacement parts from StreetBeast only, thereby ensuring a future business market for StreetBeast. Good for the company but BAD for the customer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Cobra
In all fairness in bashing CMC no one, especially not CMC's competitors, has ever said that their kits suffer from the same sort of problems , but I will and anyone with any experience building fiberglass cars of any type should admit it as well.

Which brings us back to easy to build doesn't it?

I know from actually talking to people that those that believe that they can will and that those that believe that they cannot won't and I know that the Cars that Street Beasts builds today can be built and are being built.

What I want to know is why someone that sells a bare T Bucket shell and expects the customer to supply everything else to build the car including the frame is treated with more respect than a company that tries to sell as complete a car as is economically possible.
Probably because he doesn't have a reputation for producing kinda sorta might look like the real thing if you're wearing coke bottle glasses glass bodies and doesn't lock his customers into purchasing the rest of his kit from him. His customers can go just about anywhere for parts. Can't say the same for StreetBeast.
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  #385 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Centerline
So you won't take my deal...... Actually its not surprising that your company is reluctant to accept a deal that might expose once and for all what kind of product you sell. But.... it does follow StreetBeast's established pattern.
From the looks of the crap youve put together, thats probably so, Maybe a "REAL" car builder will step up and take the deal
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  #386 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetbeastOptsMan
From the looks of the crap youve put together, thats probably so, Maybe a "REAL" car builder will step up and take the deal
You should talk.

Why don't YOU build yourself a StreetBeast with NO outside help and when both cars are finished we will ask the membership here vote on which one they would rather own. That means no crate engine, no professional body and paint work, no professional interior work, no professional assembly, no professional engine building (other than machine work of course), no professional transmission work, no professional drivetrain assembly, and no factory help whatsoever. You do ALL the work yourself. I do all my own work and if its going to be a fair comparison so should you. Oh yea, the money comes out of your pocket, just like mine does.

I can't wait to here the response to this one.

Last edited by Centerline; 08-12-2008 at 09:47 AM.
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  #387 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 09:13 AM
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My question still hasn't been answered, and I find that unusual. I'd like to document it in the wiki, and, if I'm not going to get a direct answer, or even a rebuttal, I'm going to assume that the Miami New Times article is correct.

Did the exact same guy that owned Classic Motor Carriages start StreetBeast after CMC got busted by the State of Florida for fraud?
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  #388 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Cobra

What I want to know is why someone that sells a bare T Bucket shell and expects the customer to supply everything else to build the car including the frame is treated with more respect than a company that tries to sell as complete a car as is economically possible.
Because there are some people that like to build their own frames.I called you guy's up to buy a body only.I was told ''NO CAN DO'' It won't fit any other frame but our's.I told yall that it didn't matter because I was going to build my frame to fit the body.And yall still said it won't fit.''NO CAN DO'' Well I then told yall ''NO CAN DO, TOO''.Yall lost a sale.And I'm sure that's not the only one either.Well thanks to yall,I pick up on a very good deal,And at a real good price too,That four owner's gave up on.You know If you want a street beast,Just go on ebay,And you can find one not finish for half the price.Boy I bet that don't help your sale's.
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  #389 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 10:14 AM
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Jon,

You already know the answers to your questions, you want me to write your wiki for you.

You won't like the answers I give you.

The Miami New Times is a liberal free paper that goes around digging into every dirty nasty story they think will sell a free paper. Most of their articles are so bias as to be unreadable and borderline slanderous. It is modern yellow journalism at it's finest.

That having been said there is some truth in what they wrote, however Pravda may mean truth but there is little truth in Pravda, and so it is with that article.

I would rather not speak about this issue because there are things I just don't know. That is a fair and honest answer however if I must or I will be banned from this site.....

I will answer fully and to the best of my ability and at the risk of my further employment with Street Beast any questions you may have, if you threaten to ban me for not answering them.

That is your choice
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  #390 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
My question still hasn't been answered, and I find that unusual.
Did the exact same guy that owned Classic Motor Carriages start StreetBeast after CMC got busted by the State of Florida for fraud?
Its a easy question... There is only a choice of two answers...yes or no...which is it? Why can't you folks answer it?
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