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  #406 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 01:28 PM
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As a suggestion - let's step away from here for a while. There have been a lot of nasty words from several folks including the Street Beast organization (Mark) and even Centerline. I understand the passion and and need to discuss/dispute a point, but right now it has degenerated into finger pointing, threats and name calling. This board in my short tenure as a member has always taken a challenge and run with it - but never to this point. We have always been 70,000 members reasonable. I don't see the reasonableness here now

There are several points that have been partially answered and in a fragmentary fashion by Street Beast (Mark). I really don't want to go back over 20+ pages to review them - particularly so since I wont own one, but as a long time rodder am interested in how a "leading" kit car manufacturer conducts himself. Quite frankly, I'm not impressed. You have not been professional in your responses, Mark. What I said a few posts back, at that 5:00PM hour, were I your manager, we would have parted company based on your responses here.

Centerline, I don't understand your passion. You're a good guy and a great mod. What are you trying to prove here? This is a company that has a checkered past and may even be marginal now, but let's face it, when someone buys a "kit" car and don't do their homework as to the quality of the offering and the company they are buying from, understand their own abilities, the money that will be spent take to build this project, well, I have to say, caveat emptor. With saying that, you can read what I think about Brookville's offerings, my project, in the Company Review section. The problems that I encountered with that body might even be worse then the average Street Beast .

Jon, the Wiki is a great idea. The pluses and negatives can be posted there without the personalities getting nasty with each other. Jay K is building a Street Beast, appears to be happy with what he got. I believe he is a newbie to building a car so would like to see his regular input either in the Wiki or his Journal. Many including me have offered him help in putting it together.

I'm again suggesting a back away at this point. I am, will read further posts here, but will not respond to any flame shots at this post.

Dave W

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  #407 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
As a suggestion - let's step away from here for a while. There have been a lot of nasty words from several folks including the Street Beast organization (Mark) and even Centerline. I understand the passion and and need to discuss/dispute a point, but right now it has degenerated into finger pointing, threats and name calling. This board in my short tenure as a member has always taken a challenge and run with it - but never to this point. We have always been 70,000 members reasonable. I don't see the reasonableness here now

There are several points that have been partially answered and in a fragmentary fashion by Street Beast (Mark). I really don't want to go back over 20+ pages to review them - particularly so since I wont own one, but as a long time rodder am interested in how a "leading" kit car manufacturer conducts himself. Quite frankly, I'm not impressed. You have not been professional in your responses, Mark. What I said a few posts back, at that 5:00PM hour, were I your manager, we would have parted company based on your responses here.

Centerline, I don't understand your passion. You're a good guy and a great mod. What are you trying to prove here? This is a company that has a checkered past and may even be marginal now, but let's face it, when someone buys a "kit" car and don't do their homework as to the quality of the offering and the company they are buying from, understand their own abilities, the money that will be spent take to build this project, well, I have to say, caveat emptor. With saying that, you can read what I think about Brookville's offerings, my project, in the Company Review section. The problems that I encountered with that body might even be worse then the average Street Beast .

Jon, the Wiki is a great idea. The pluses and negatives can be posted there without the personalities getting nasty with each other. Jay K is building a Street Beast, appears to be happy with what he got. I believe he is a newbie to building a car so would like to see his regular input either in the Wiki or his Journal. Many including me have offered him help in putting it together.

I'm again suggesting a back away at this point. I am, will read further posts here, but will not respond to any flame shots at this post.

Dave W

Good Idea!! Im Out
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  #408 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon
Streetbeast folks: I'd like a direct answer to my question about the ownership of Fiberfab/Innovative Street Machines/Classic Motor Carriages/Auto Resolutions/StreetBeasts. I understand that such a direct answer may jeopardize your employment with StreetBeasts. Sending in an opts guy or a parts manager is appreciated, but it's probably not the best way to handle this situation. Someone with lots of experience in media or press relations would be the ideal candidate to address this gracefully. In handling the public or the press, just as in building cars, experience counts.

Bashing the Miami New Times, calling your letter to the editor a "retraction letter", and beating around the bush about StreetBeasts's ownership are all blatant red flags to me. It's extremely obvious that you're concealing something, and we're going to research it, document it, publicize it, and hold you accountable for it.

This situation has escalated to the point where I'm now going to contact The Miami New Times reporter, as well as Curt Scott, whose Kit Car Buyer's guide is the publication to which I'm assuming you're referring.

I understand that CMC filed a lawsuit against the consumer activist who contacted your customers (Stuart Rado), and Curt Scott, and members of the North Dakota Attorney General's office. I've seen the docs, and the discrepancy between the official documents and your spin on the situation is yet another red flag for me.

A blood-and-guts forum free-for-all isn't going to ruffle my feathers. Nor is a lawsuit threat. We've already gone up against multi-billion dollar corporations, and made them back down, and publicly parodied their executives. This isn't our first rodeo, and it's not going to be our last. This is all going to be documented in the wiki, and it's all going to be high-ranked in Google, and it's going to get plenty of attention. If you want some time to get a media relations person to address this, that's fine. You can contact me by email privately, and we can go from there.

You can find Curt Scott at www.cobracountry.com he is accepting donations to continue his legal defense, we wiped his *** out ,now Carroll Shelby suing him ......LOL Centerline your getting real close to the cross hairs yourself If any of you guys want to donate to Curt Scotts legal defense hes the link www.saac.com/LDF.htm
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  #409 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetbeastOptsMan
You can find Curt Scott at www.cobracountry.com he is accepting donations to continue his legal defense, we wiped his *** out ,now Carroll Shelby suing him ......LOL Centerline your getting real close to the cross hairs yourself If any of you guys want to donate to Curt Scotts legal defense hes the link www.saac.com/LDF.htm
Seems to me that you threatened me a few pages back as well. I told you then that your intimidation tactics won't work. Free speech is just that and you can't come after me for voicing my opinions and posting public record FACTS about your company.

If I had created a web site with the express purpose of defaming StreetBeast then you might have a leg to stand but I doubt it. The simple FACT of the matter is that I have an opinion just the same as everyone else who has posted in this thread and according to the First Amendment of the US Constitution I have a right to express it. The fact that you don't agree means nothing when it comes to my right to speak my opinions.

I have not defamed you personally as you have me. I have not called you an A-hole as you have me. I have not tap-danced around answering direct questions as you have, and I have not tried to intimidate you as you have me. FRANKLY I BELIEVE THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT HOW STREETBEAST DOES BUSINESS.

You are digging the hole deeper with each post and I agree with Jon that your posts and attitude here have not helped StreetBeast's case in the slightest. In fact just the opposite.
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  #410 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
I'll make you guys a deal. I've been one of your loudest critics for years but..... If your company is willing to provide me with a Cobra kit free of charge (no way I'd do one of your 33 coupes or Vickys), I'll come to Miami and pick it up. Then I'll document the complete build with totally non biased commentary for the general public to read. I'll post it here or wherever you want and I'll let you guys preview the comments and discuss any heart burn you might have with them before they are posted. I'll call out all the good and the bad without editorializing in any way. Now that's fair. Deal or no Deal???
Jon,

Can you read this?

Thanks,

Jay K.
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  #411 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JGK95
Jon,

Can you read this?

Thanks,

Jay K.
So what's you point?????
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  #412 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 02:33 PM
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Guy's I'm done here, this has gotten way out of control.I'm just going to sit back and watch where this ENDS.I said all I needed too.I'm sure there are a few hear that's glad to hear that.Have fun. ''I'M DONE''!!!!
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  #413 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 02:33 PM
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My point is, if I flim flam the guys at Street Beasts, maybe, and just maybe, I CAN GET A FREE HOT ROD TOO!



Jay K.

ps. When they countered your offer, you wouldn't have had to even make it a "runner". Just a roller to demonstrate the build and watch it go for auction to a charity!

Your reply?

More of the same.
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  #414 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetbeastOptsMan
He offer me a deal and we accepted with terms that the finished car would be auctioned off for cerebal palsy foundation, and he backed out, he used us for extortion , ban this ******* , he gives hot rodding a bad name
What are you doing? You sound like a teenager that has not learned to take criticism and throwing out all the language and crap you can.

In one ear and out the other, or eyes I should say. When you began with this, you sound childish and VERY unprofessional.

Give it up, you can have a logical and adult style conversation here without it, and it will come with more respect.

Jason
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  #415 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:10 PM
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What are you doing? You sound like a teenager that has not learned to take criticism and throwing out all the language and crap you can.

In one ear and out the other, or eyes I should say. When you began with this, you sound childish and VERY unprofessional.

Give it up, you can have a logical and adult style conversation here without it, and it will come with more respect.

Jason
I know I was done here,But Jason that's one bad a** rod you have there!!! I will get around to building one just like it!!!! That has been my dream car forever!!!!!Very nicely done!!!!
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  #416 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
I know I was done here,But Jason that's one bad a** rod you have there!!! I will get around to building one just like it!!!! That has been my dream car forever!!!!!Very nicely done!!!!
Hey, thanks sir. It has been blood, sweat and tears, but it all worked out. I went against what most people said, but I liked the body. So, I went with it anyway. I do not have many regrets, and I too had to make changes. I guess their Willys is much different than their 34's and 33's produced. All of the inner structures are removable and inside the car, therefore it is removable. Did a lot of welding, versus bolt together, but if I had to, I can cut it out. Let me just hope I never have to for a long time.

Thanks Again,

Jason
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  #417 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGK95
My point is, if I flim flam the guys at Street Beasts, maybe, and just maybe, I CAN GET A FREE HOT ROD TOO!



Jay K.

ps. When they countered your offer, you wouldn't have had to even make it a "runner". Just a roller to demonstrate the build and watch it go for auction to a charity!

Your reply?

More of the same.
So they refused to accept my terms and I refused to accept theirs. Big deal. Get over it.
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  #418 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 05:04 PM
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Jon,

As I had already surmised you already knew what you wanted to know, you just wanted me to say it or rather to lie about it.

Now if everyone would please put on their logic devices, I want to test your ability to reason.



Which is more logical?



A) George Levin pays $3 million to the State of Florida in fines to get out of the CMC's fraud case

Or

B) George Levin pays $3 Million to settle customer complaints to avoid prosecution in a fraud case Against CMC



gee that shouldn't be too hard to figure out, ready for the next one....




CMC is under investigation for customer complaints, what happens?

A)CMC closes down and their customers get nothing

or

B)CMC closes down and Auto Resolution is formed to supply CMC customers with the kits and parts that CMC promised their customers they would get and more importantly their customers paid for....

Hmmm That seems to be any easy choice how about this one



George Levin is convicted of fraud on a scale almost unimaginable The State of Florida decides to?

A) Put George Levin in a prison cell with a six foot five 300 pound gorilla named Bubba for a very long time....

or

B) make him pay the state of Florida $3 million dollars and shuts down CMC forever and CMC's customers get nothing at all



Well that one was a little harder since neither makes logical sense and indeed if George Levin had been convicted of fraud my logic device says that not only would Curt Scott have plastered his web site with it but he would have been vindicated and praised throughout the land as a tireless crusader for those poor downtrodden souls that actually bought a kit car from Classic Motor Carriages.

What?

That never happened?

There was no supersized expose`claiming victory over CMC as well as massive platitudes and tomes written to praise the virtues of the Mighty Scott in the media!

I wonder why not?

Let's think about this logically.



Curt Scott never received the praise he so richly deserved because....

A)In the end CMC's customers got nothing because of his efforts

or

B)In The end CMC's customers were taken care of in spite of Curt Scott's efforts and not because of them, Many even decided to still get their kits and build them as they had originally planned before Curt Scott tried to help them out!

In truth the power of the press has always worked to Mr. Scott's advantage, he is after all a magazine publisher. He could portray CMC as villains with little or no chance that they would expose him as a man that would threaten anyone that didn't agree with his terms for advertisement.

Besides Classic Motor Carriages I know of at least two other companies that were similarly threatened, one doesn't even make Kit Cars, they only sell parts, but Curt Scott was going to shut them down if they did not buy ad space from him.



Now for one final brain teaser of logic

Which makes more logical sense?

Fiberfab/CMC/CARS/Auto Resolution/Innovative/Street Beast sells kits cars for over 30 years that....

A) No One can build and no one ever has completed one...

or

B) that anyone can build if they really want to....

For an example of the type of articles The Miami New Times writes, I submit to you this one about a lovable old man Called "Gramps" that sat in libraries and read children books and who once produced The Curious George Videos.

I only wish you could have seen the pictures of Curious George that accompanied that article...
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  #419 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
.........Centerline, I don't understand your passion. You're a good guy and a great mod. What are you trying to prove here? This is a company that has a checkered past and may even be marginal now, but let's face it, when someone buys a "kit" car and don't do their homework as to the quality of the offering and the company they are buying from, understand their own abilities, the money that will be spent take to build this project, well, I have to say, caveat emptor. With saying that, you can read what I think about Brookville's offerings, my project, in the Company Review section. The problems that I encountered with that body might even be worse then the average Street Beast .

Dave W
My problem is that I see a company who specifically targets newcomers to the hobby with what many people consider a poor product. I would guess by the number of unfinished kits that have been for sale over the years, that there are literally hundreds of Streetbeast customers who have given up on their projects simply because they purchased something they thought would go together easily and without the need for shadetree engineering. Something they weren't prepared for or were not capable of doing.

The product Streetbeast sells can be built into a useful vehicle but that doesn't excuse the God awful looks, poor design, and high pressure sales tactics the company has used. I just want to make sure that anyone who is considering purchasing one of these "kits" and who actually does take the time to do some research has access to all sides of the issue and can therefore make an informed decision. There will always be those who fall prey to high pressure sales tactics and for those people all we can offer is moral support and technical assistance. I just want people to know what they're getting into before plunking down thousands of dollars on a "kit" that kinda sorta looks like the real thing if you're wearing coke bottle glasses.
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  #420 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2008, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Cobra
Jon,

As I had already surmised you already knew what you wanted to know, you just wanted me to say it or rather to lie about it.

Now if everyone would please put on their logic devices, I want to test your ability to reason.



Which is more logical?



A) George Levin pays $3 million to the State of Florida in fines to get out of the CMC's fraud case

Or

B) George Levin pays $3 Million to settle customer complaints to avoid prosecution in a fraud case Against CMC



gee that shouldn't be too hard to figure out, ready for the next one....




CMC is under investigation for customer complaints, what happens?

A)CMC closes down and their customers get nothing

or

B)CMC closes down and Auto Resolution is formed to supply CMC customers with the kits and parts that CMC promised their customers they would get and more importantly their customers paid for....

Hmmm That seems to be any easy choice how about this one



George Levin is convicted of fraud on a scale almost unimaginable The State of Florida decides to?

A) Put George Levin in a prison cell with a six foot five 300 pound gorilla named Bubba for a very long time....

or

B) make him pay the state of Florida $3 million dollars and shuts down CMC forever and CMC's customers get nothing at all



Well that one was a little harder since neither makes logical sense and indeed if George Levin had been convicted of fraud my logic device says that not only would Curt Scott have plastered his web site with it but he would have been vindicated and praised throughout the land as a tireless crusader for those poor downtrodden souls that actually bought a kit car from Classic Motor Carriages.

What?

That never happened?

There was no supersized expose`claiming victory over CMC as well as massive platitudes and tomes written to praise the virtues of the Mighty Scott in the media!

I wonder why not?

Let's think about this logically.



Curt Scott never received the praise he so richly deserved because....

A)In the end CMC's customers got nothing because of his efforts

or

B)In The end CMC's customers were taken care of in spite of Curt Scott's efforts and not because of them, Many even decided to still get their kits and build them as they had originally planned before Curt Scott tried to help them out!

In truth the power of the press has always worked to Mr. Scott's advantage, he is after all a magazine publisher. He could portray CMC as villains with little or no chance that they would expose him as a man that would threaten anyone that didn't agree with his terms for advertisement.

Besides Classic Motor Carriages I know of at least two other companies that were similarly threatened, one doesn't even make Kit Cars, they only sell parts, but Curt Scott was going to shut them down if they did not buy ad space from him.



Now for one final brain teaser of logic

Which makes more logical sense?

Fiberfab/CMC/CARS/Auto Resolution/Innovative/Street Beast sells kits cars for over 30 years that....

A) No One can build and no one ever has completed one...

or

B) that anyone can build if they really want to....

For an example of the type of articles The Miami New Times writes, I submit to you this one about a lovable old man Called "Gramps" that sat in libraries and read children books and who once produced The Curious George Videos.

I only wish you could have seen the pictures of Curious George that accompanied that article...
Another convoluted answer to a direct question.
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