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  #601 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 428ho
I really would like to know what your end goal is here with SB....
Why can't you just let it go?
I don't know Jon's exact motivation but I do know why I participate in an extended thread like this. I'm a hot rodder. And as a part of the hot rodding community I hate seeing any sort of rip off artists taking advantage of our members.

A large part of why HR.Com exists is to help one another stay out of trouble and avoid pitfalls in the design and construction of our cars. This includes open and detailed discussion of vendors, suppliers, manufacturers and machine shops. There are dozens upon dozens of examples here on these pages where "reviews" (both good and bad) help steer newcomers and old timers alike toward the best and away from the worst.

I personally believe, based on what I've read and heard in this and other threads, that Streetbeast preys upon our fellow hot rodders with deceptive sales techniques and then uses strong arm tactics, including the threat of financial ruin, to silence any and all detractors. And since they continue to do this, right up until yesterday's postings, the hot rodding community needs to remain alert to the "beast" that is among us. As long as SB continues to threaten and intimidate this marketplace, HR.Com needs to keep it's membership informed.

Personally I applaud what HR.Com does by allowing us to share our experiences, both good and bad, with a massive audience. The thugs who prey on our community can only operate if they can operate in the dark and hide under the rocks. Jon provides us the opportunity to lift up those rocks and shine a very bright light on the actions and motivations of companies like SB.

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  #602 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 07:59 AM
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I happened to look at a finished Street Beast a few days ago. Unfortunately the owner wasn't around so I couldn't ask him how much pain and anguish he went through to get it to that point - but it was an excellent looking car. Unfortunately, it still had the SB less then faithful to a '33/'34 Ford (to me, anyhow) look that I picked out as I drove by, then stopped for a better look.

The purpose of this thread wandered a bit and there are probably some comments that might be best deleted, but it does show that the old term learned in grade school, "caveat emptor" - let the buyer beware is to be considered. That "boiler room" sales techniques have been and still are being used. It also shows a potential buyer that there are probably better choices if he wants some faithfullness to an OEM Ford.

We can pick on several "kit" or repro manufacturers that have had some significant problems, but to the best of my knowledge, none as checquered as CMC/Street Beasts.

I don't believe Jon wants to run them out of business, just convince them that to be an honest and forthright supplier with honest advertising and sales techniques will gain them more sales and enhance their reputation and maybe have a presence here that would be a positive and forward move for their product.

Dave W
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  #603 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 428ho
Jon



Inquiring minds want to know as this has gotten redicules, on both sides.
Why can't you just let it go?


Other inquiring minds, (mine included), don't find this ridiculous at all.

As many have said, if this discussion keeps one person from getting suckered by SB or what ever they will call themselves in a year or 2, then it was worth it....


If a company goes under because of the bad press they earned, then that's ok too.

If you don't like the show, don't watch it.

No one is being forced to post here.


Later, mikey
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  #604 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
I happened to look at a finished Street Beast a few days ago. Unfortunately the owner wasn't around so I couldn't ask him how much pain and anguish he went through to get it to that point - but it was an excellent looking car. Unfortunately, it still had the SB less then faithful to a '33/'34 Ford (to me, anyhow) look that I picked out as I drove by, then stopped for a better look.

The purpose of this thread wandered a bit and there are probably some comments that might be best deleted, but it does show that the old term learned in grade school, "caveat emptor" - let the buyer beware is to be considered. That "boiler room" sales techniques have been and still are being used. It also shows a potential buyer that there are probably better choices if he wants some faithfullness to an OEM Ford.

We can pick on several "kit" or repro manufacturers that have had some significant problems, but to the best of my knowledge, none as checquered as CMC/Street Beasts.

I don't believe Jon wants to run them out of business, just convince them that to be an honest and forthright supplier with honest advertising and sales techniques will gain them more sales and enhance their reputation and maybe have a presence here that would be a positive and forward move for their product.

Dave W
Probably the best post I've read here so far Dave.
Most others are knee jerkers.
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  #605 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
.........If this entire thread with all the replies and time spent ... just keeps one poor schmuck from going in to the purchase of a StreetBeast uninformed ... it will be worth it.

If ... after reading all of this, the potential buyer wants to buy one ... then that's OK also.

At least they went in to the deal informed.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I love it when great minds think alike.
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  #606 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 11:08 AM
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If that's all this is about, that was covered a long, long time ago.

Talk about beating a dead horse...
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  #607 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 428ho
If that's all this is about, that was covered a long, long time ago.
With at least one important exception. Steetbeast makes the the claim to potential customers that they have "changed their ways" since the days they were taken to court and required to pay out millions to cheated and intimidated customers. They say that's "old news" and should no longer be dredged up. They've said it right here on HR. Com. And some rodders, in all fairness, have said, "give them a second chance, perhaps they HAVE altered their sales tactics, customer treatement, and mentality of intimidation and fear."

Thus the need to continue examining the evidence right up to the current moment. And much of that evidence is right here within the most recent postings on HR.Com threads. Streetbeast officials misrepresenting their identities and claiming to be people they are not. Streetbeast officials threatening this site's administrator with financial ruin. Streetbeast officials proudly pointing out the legal billy club they used to silence a consumer advocate...an advocate, by the way, who was only attempting to protect potential customers like you and me.

So it's not beating a DEAD horse. For this horse is quite alive and kicking...still preying on car enthusiasts across the nation, still trying to ruin people financially, and still throwing it's legal team at critics in an attempt to silence any and all open discussion of the Streetbeast product and the Streetbeast strong arm mentality.

If YOU have all the evidence you need to make a determination about the company, then by all means you can tune out of this thread. But for those who might still give Streetbeast the benefit of the doubt...and believe the jury is still out...the evidence should continue to be gathered.
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  #608 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 12:25 PM
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Ford Pinto tanks exploded with rear impacts, I don't see Ford having to state "We've changed from our wicked ways of the past" They moved on. As must any company to survive.
I've read both sides, I see a personal vandetta brewing from the mods here, attacking anyone that doesn't agree with them about SB.
I don't give a rip about SB's history or future, what I do care about is seeing people gang up and twisting words to mean what you want them to mean.
And no, I'm not going back through pages of drivel to show your examples. You know you did it.

You have some current issues with SB? Let's see them, seems all of you want to do is dig up old bones? You can't change history, but you sure like to throw it in peoples faces.

WE GET IT ALREADY!!! THEY WERE BAD!!!
What's going on NOW!!!
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  #609 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 12:28 PM
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I see no reason to close this thread or delete posts, and those are two things that we rarely do anyway. If we need to moderate the thread, or if anyone tries to sabotage it, we can always split off posts to the Dump.

As each page turns, we're getting more details on Streetbeasts, more lies, spin, and threats, and more insight into how they really operate. It's a bit lurid, but it's also quite educational.

The discussion will come to a natural finish when it's good and ready. And even then, over the years, it will still probably get the occasional new post or revival (as it already has).

We'll also have the wiki article to document it in a more concise and accessible manner, so that people don't have to slog through a 40-pager to understand what's happening.

In addition, the negative economic impact experienced by Streetbeasts should serve as an example to any future companies who seem to think that deception and threats will best serve their business interests.
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  #610 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
I see no reason to close this thread or delete posts, and those are two things that we rarely do anyway. If we need to moderate the thread, or if anyone tries to sabotage it, we can always split off posts to the Dump.

As each page turns, we're getting more details on Streetbeasts, more lies, spin, and threats, and more insight into how they really operate. It's a bit lurid, but it's also quite educational.

The discussion will come to a natural finish when it's good and ready. And even then, over the years, it will still probably get the occasional new post or revival (as it already has).

We'll also have the wiki article to document it in a more concise and accessible manner, so that people don't have to slog through a 40-pager to understand what's happening.

In addition, the negative economic impact experienced by Streetbeasts should serve as an example to any future companies who seem to think that deception and threats will best serve their business interests.

Jon , and all Moderators and members,

I joined this site back in May 2008 to try to shed some light on Streetbeasts and the changes we've been though in the last 10 -15 years. Almost immediately I was verbally assassinated by Jon and the Mods, Ive answered every question you've asked as honestly as I could, everything from our connection with CMC/Fiberfab to buying them out , paying back all their outstanding orders, and starting "Streetbeast in 1998, What ever happened before that , has nothing to do with now, We currently sell 30-40 kits a month, deliver them , and our customers are happy, of course we have a problem from time to time , what company doesn't? We don't strong arm anyone to buy our kit, if anything we offer a 3 year layaway plan that actually allows customers who would normally not be able to afford to build a hot rod . We offer show specials, certain option packages,or savings if a person buys now, I think this is called "Car Sales" which has been going on for 100 years. I don't think we've ever financially ruined anybody like you say, or put a gun to anyones head to buy our product. We advertise just like every other company, customers call us for a catalog, we follow up with them to answer their questions, offer them a deal we have going at the time and if the are interested they buy the car. We don't prey on anybody? If were such a bad company , how come so many people have built our cars into award winning show cars( Just look at our Customer Gallery) As far as stooping as low as to use profanity towards Jon, I apologize, but when you believe so deep in your heart about something and someone is so dead set on bashing you and putting you in a corner, you have to retaliate . As far as us impersonating Curt scott , thats bizarre because it never came from here, and Jon , no ones going to ruin you financially but this corporation will do what it takes to stop the negative press prior to 1998 as it has no bearing to Streetbeasts current status or business practices,

Thank you
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  #611 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 01:19 PM
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In this post, you threatened a moderator of this forum with legal action and financial ruin.

In this post, the EXACT SAME IP ADDRESS that you and Grandpa Cobra have been posting from was used to impersonate Curt Scott (the last person to warn people about Streetbeasts), and threaten me with legal action and financial ruin.

In addition, that exact same IP address deleted our wiki article on Streetbeasts, and it's permanently logged in the history page for the wiki article.

You guys didn't "buy out" CMC. Streetbeasts is owned by the same guy. And obviously, obviously, obviously you're using the exact same fraudulent tactics to scam and scare people today.

Your previous post is a perfect example of why we haven't closed this thread.
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  #612 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetbeastOptsMan
Jon , and all Moderators and members,

I joined this site back in May 2008 to try to shed some light on Streetbeasts and the changes we've been though in the last 10 -15 years. Almost immediately I was verbally assassinated by Jon and the Mods, Ive answered every question you've asked as honestly as I could, everything from our connection with CMC/Fiberfab to buying them out , paying back all their outstanding orders, and starting "Streetbeast in 1998, What ever happened before that , has nothing to do with now, We currently sell 30-40 kits a month, deliver them , and our customers are happy, of course we have a problem from time to time , what company doesn't? We don't strong arm anyone to buy our kit, if anything we offer a 3 year layaway plan that actually allows customers who would normally not be able to afford to build a hot rod . We offer show specials, certain option packages,or savings if a person buys now, I think this is called "Car Sales" which has been going on for 100 years. I don't think we've ever financially ruined anybody like you say, or put a gun to anyones head to buy our product. We advertise just like every other company, customers call us for a catalog, we follow up with them to answer their questions, offer them a deal we have going at the time and if the are interested they buy the car. We don't prey on anybody? If were such a bad company , how come so many people have built our cars into award winning show cars( Just look at our Customer Gallery) As far as stooping as low as to use profanity towards Jon, I apologize, but when you believe so deep in your heart about something and someone is so dead set on bashing you and putting you in a corner, you have to retaliate . As far as us impersonating Curt scott , thats bizarre because it never came from here, and Jon , no ones going to ruin you financially but this corporation will do what it takes to stop the negative press prior to 1998 as it has no bearing to Streetbeasts current status or business practices,

Thank you

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
That's because the really nice ones are either built by someone with years of experience or by professionals. The average guy with average ability has only a marginal chance of winding up with a masterpiece.

Oh yes you are! They're products are at least faithful copies of the original. When you build a Gibbons or Outlaw bodied car you wind up with one that actually looks like the original. That simply is not the case with most of Street Beast/Classic Motor Carriages/Fiberfab's offerings.

Biggest maybe but best is highly debatable. Perhaps this article written by a former CMC employee will shed some light on the "advertising and sales" tactics used by your company. Just because the name has changed doesn't mean the tactics and high-pressure sales have changed.

ttp://www.geocities.com/aztec7fan/story_by_christopher_aguilera.html

Also while I'm at it, how about an article that appeared in Car and Driver magazine a few years ago that will help shed a little more light on the dismal reputation and past history of Street Beast/Classic Motor Carriages/Fiberfab.

http://www.erareplicas.com/misc/bedard/index.htm

When all is said and done little has changed since the days of Fiberfab and CMC. The design is still a poor representation of the original, and the frame still leaves a lot to be desired. On the other side, customer service must have approved since as far as I can tell there are no pending law suits or BBB complaints and the quality of the fiberglass work is better. From my point of view, thats about all I can say good about the company.

Have I built a Street Beast? No. Would I build a Street Beast? Not even if it was free. Have I been badgered by Street Beast sales people? Yes, until I changed my phone number. You see I made the mistake of actually inquiring about one of their Cobra kits once. I'll never do that again, I can assure you.

It's too bad really, Street Beast's Willys and Cobra aren't too bad when it comes to fidelity to the original (although the Cobra is stretched a little). Its the molds for their street rods that were inherited from CMC and Fiberfab that are so terrible. It's too bad that Street Beast can't see how bad they really are and invest some of its profits into new molds and an improved design. Don't hold your breath for that to happen though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetbeastOptsMan
Is that the best you can come up with, Those artictle are more like 12 years old almost as old as this thread. You really need to stop referring this company to CMC and Fiber Fab, This has been turned over to our attorney and you will be contacted if not already , I dont think you have enough equity in those cars you own to withstand a Civil Liable Lawsuit , if I were you Id pull the plug on this thread immediately and walk away, and remove the Wiki site from your main page , let people find it on their own

Govern yourself accordingly

On page 19, post 275, you actually DID threaten or imply legal suit against this board. Maybe not against Jon himself, but you did try to use what is known as "libel freeze". You had a wonderful opportunity here to clear up some ongoing questions. Simply owning up from the start, and keeping away from the personal profane attacks would have given anything you had to say soooo much more credibility. Unfortunately, you started a spin and deception campaign, and have seriously lowered not only your own credibility and image, but that of the company as well. Can you turn it around? Possibly, but as I'm sure you have heard, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression".
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  #613 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 01:47 PM
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Great to hear someone else mention "libel freeze", also known as "chilling effect" .

It's an attempt to suppress free speech with fear of punishment. It's a common tactic, and it's also complete BS, because we have every right to express our opinions without fear of retribution. It's hard-coded into the Constitution, and it's the foundation upon which America, and many other modern societies, are built.

Details on Wikipedia: Chilling Effect.
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  #614 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2008, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbchevfreak
On page 19, post 275, you actually DID threaten or imply legal suit against this board. Maybe not against Jon himself, but you did try to use what is known as "libel freeze". You had a wonderful opportunity here to clear up some ongoing questions. Simply owning up from the start, and keeping away from the personal profane attacks would have given anything you had to say soooo much more credibility. Unfortunately, you started a spin and deception campaign, and have seriously lowered not only your own credibility and image, but that of the company as well. Can you turn it around? Possibly, but as I'm sure you have heard, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression".
I made my statement and thats it Jon, if you want keep spinning this in whatever direction want , so be it, It is what it is ! We make a quality product, we dont do anything illegal, we deliver what we sell, and our customer , experienced or not are very happy....Thanks
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:39 PM
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It would seem that it would be in the company's best interest to agree and apologize for what had been done and then try to get on with it ,


Quote:
I made my statement and thats it Jon, if you want keep spinning this in whatever direction want , so be it, It is what it is ! We make a quality product, we dont do anything illegal, we deliver what we sell, and our customer , experienced or not are very happy....Thanks
Doesnt sound like your company or you want to address what was said, if thats the case expect that people will talk about this as this is the best site on the web for hotrodders.

Last edited by Centerline; 08-28-2008 at 05:09 PM. Reason: Other.
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