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  #1096 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2009, 05:44 PM
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Glass or steel makes little difference to me. What I'm concerned about is overall quality.

Someone buys a glass body he expects it to be a fair reproduction of the real thing, and if he's just buying a body he also expects a great deal of work when it comes to building a chassis and fitting it properly. This should go without saying.

When someone buys a "kit" he expects it to be a fair reproduction as well. He also expects the vast majority of the difficult fitment work has been engineered into the product so that things go together the way they are advertised. Additionally he expects to have a better than average chance of winding up with a successful build.

Streetbeast fails to meet even the most basic expectations of most people. Not because the product can't be built successfully but because it is by far one of the most difficult to build kits on the market. This would not in and of itself be a big problem but Streetbeast markets their product to the novice which is what causes the vast majority of consternation. Most novice builders don't have the ability or experience to solve all the problems inherent with a Streetbeast kit and that's why so many never see the road and just wind up as unfinished projects rotting away in a shed somewhere.

Perhaps the best word to describe Streetbeast's sales strategy is "Predatory". That about says it all.

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  #1097 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2009, 07:01 PM
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[QUOTE=pepi]
The metal cars have very defined lines. curves and corners are tight, bent/formed metal .. glass can not duplicate that.. I am not knocking the glass crowd, but the metal guys cars are worth more, with a qualifier both built the same except for the body .

[QUOTE]

You have no clue of what you say. Fiberglass can be molded to be every bit as defined as steel, it only requires attention. As far as the opening of the doors telling the tale, that is a misconception on your part as well. The bodies WE built had extra design work done to the molds, specifically to appear as well defined as steel, and special interface preparation procedures as well as dedicated fixturing to keep all inner/outer panel interface edges the same dimension as it's steel counterpart.
The insides of the window openings had extra steps taken so you did not see a hollow opening with rough edges, and it was easy to mistake our bodies for steel.
As the shop forman who also worked many national shows in the capacity of factory rep, I can not count how many people asked if our bodies were steel.

I am more familiar with the shortcomings of glass bodies that most companies fail to address than you could ever imagine.

Most glass companies refuse to take the extra time it takes to build a quality car body.

That car you reference has no "side curtains". Side curtains are optional acessories for roadsters and touring cars for inclement weather.
If you are referring to the hood top and sides on the blue and white 34 Ford replica in Rob's post , they are steel, not fiberglass. I should know, I performed a great deal of the work to complete that car at my shop. It was actually the last 34 coupe body I built when I worked at Poli-Form in a full time capacity, delivered December, 1997.

The 34 coupe body is not being produced by Poli-Form at this time, due to the inability to find people skilled enough to produce them on a production basis. We had standards that most employees could not or would not meet.

As far as resale value goes, you are correct in most instances, only because a great many companies building 'glass cars have given most all of them a bad reputation, which you yourself propagate, obviously having no experience with a good one.

Later, mikey
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  #1098 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2009, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike

Most glass companies refuse to take the extra time it takes to build a quality car body.

We had standards that most employees could not or would not meet.

Later, mikey

Right there are probably two of the most important lines in this whole thread as I've read it. In generalized terms, a high production volume (Hpv) takes time, and taking the time to make a near perfect product will simply take too long for a Hpv company to make enough money building. Cut one corner in production, then another, next thing you know quality falls way down, customers get ticked and stop buying crap products, and then the business falls by the wayside because of it's latest reputation. Am I right in how this cycle works?


In a while, Chet.


BTW, welcome back Centerline and Rob Keller!
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  #1099 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2009, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepi
but the metal guys cars are worth more, with a qualifier both built the same except for the body .
Keep in mind,That the one's now that are bringing the most money today are glass cars..Take a look at the ''wild rods'' ''coast to coast'' and ''OZE rods'' and the 41 willys.These cars are all glass.And if you do a little checking,They are bringing the most money right now.I would love to have a steel car.But not everyone is that lucky.I have nothing against steel or glass.
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  #1100 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnitz
Right there are probably two of the most important lines in this whole thread as I've read it. In generalized terms, a high production volume (Hpv) takes time, and taking the time to make a near perfect product will simply take too long for a Hpv company to make enough money building. Cut one corner in production, then another, next thing you know quality falls way down, customers get ticked and stop buying crap products, and then the business falls by the wayside because of it's latest reputation. Am I right in how this cycle works?

In a while, Chet.
Yep, case in point...Gibbon Fiberglass

Vince
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  #1101 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnitz
Right there are probably two of the most important lines in this whole thread as I've read it. In generalized terms, a high production volume (Hpv) takes time, and taking the time to make a near perfect product will simply take too long for a Hpv company to make enough money building. Cut one corner in production, then another, next thing you know quality falls way down, customers get ticked and stop buying crap products, and then the business falls by the wayside because of it's latest reputation. Am I right in how this cycle works?


In a while, Chet.


BTW, welcome back Centerline and Rob Keller!
Right Chet, that's about the gist of it.

There are very few people on this thread, or on this board for that matter who have worked for a production fiberglass manufacturer. I am one.

Most companies start out with good intentions, but find they are short on experience with the product they are trying to produce..The profit margin decreases considerably when you produce a high quality product, because the market is flooded with lower priced competitors, who claim high quality, to attract buyers with little or no prior experience with any fiberglass product.

The 34 coupe body that was produced by Poli-Form took over 130 man hours to build...that was just the body, from the firewall back..no fenders, no frame, no hood. But the doors and decklid were hung, fitted flush, gapped and all hardware was fitted and installed.. The floor and firewall was installed. The entire body had a steel cage built into it, which had steel surrounding every opening, and all of the body to chassis bolt holes were punched through a 1/8 x2 steel strap that ran the length of the body, was bedded in and glassed over, and the steel cage was continuous starting from that steel strap.

For example, The base doors which were steel reinforced, all the way around, with an intrusion bar..every structural part which bolted to the door was bolted through steel...no thinner than 1/8 HRS..with stock hinges had the stock check strap installed, a 2 stage rotary latch with handle and escutcheon, the stock dovetails, male and female, the stock window regulator, with handle and trim escutcheon, the window channels were installed, along with window wiper moldings and a fitted garnish molding. Each door had an actual window glass fitted, just to make sure that the glass, (which was an option) would fit and operate smoothly. We regularly installed glass , and if we did not, a full set of window templates was supplied.
A pair of doors took 40 hours to build. I did a time study over the course of several years, which had detailed times and cost analysis for 20 complete bodies, options included, as well as keeping track of the production times for all of the short run subassemblies.

Poli-Form actually drop tested 2 bodies to confirm their structural integrity. If an issue was found, we fixed it...and then we retrofitted ALREADY BOUGHT bodies with the upgrade..at no charge. Tell me about any other company that will do that.

I worked for the best in the business. I worked my way up from a base job in the assembly department to being working shop foreman, working and excelling in every department there, including tooling and production design. And I am DAMN proud of that. I still take tech calls at my shop for the stuff I built 20 years ago, and every one of those folks is still happy they bought from us.

But I like any car, as long as it is of sufficient quality to be reasonably safe, and some attention was paid to detail.

Here is what I worked on this week...all steel 34 Vicky. I did not build it, I only straightened out the combined efforts of 3 previous shops efforts to try to make it NOT stop right....
Yes folks actually pay me to work on hotrods... Yes I do get to see both worlds, original steel as well as fiberglass cars. I can say without a doubt that fiberglass cars are every bit as real as steel. I actually find that a GOOD quality, steel reinforced fiberglass bodied car will be stronger in every way than a 70 year old steel bodied car. They both drive, steer and stop, and if it makes the owner happy, then it's a good thing.

Later, mikey
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  #1102 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 06:20 AM
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They never send me pictures of their progress.

And yet they call me almost weekly...
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  #1103 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 09:32 AM
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I have nothing against glass either.

What I do object to however is scammers selling poorly made and poorly designed products to people who buy into the marketing lies then get cheated out of their money when the full order isn't shipped.

A nice looking car is still a nice looking car. A company turning out well built, safe, pretty cars is a far cry from the junk that the bottom feeders make.
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  #1104 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bluesman2333
.......... scammers selling poorly made and poorly designed products to people who buy into the marketing lies then get cheated out of their money when the full order isn't shipped.....
That should go down in Webster's Dictionary as the perfect definition of StreetBeast.
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  #1105 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 10:43 AM
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Ayup. SB employees coming here pretending to be customers that are well taken care of can't possibly overcome the truth of what SB does and what they are.
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  #1106 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 10:49 AM
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Well I have to say that JGK95 is in process of his build, as is J4strack, and they are saying good things about their builds...

I do commend them for having enough balls to come on here and defend their position and choice, even though they are outnumbered.

My father always said..."if you think you got a good deal...then you got a good deal.

I know guys with cars that I wouldn't ride in or touch, but they are happy with them, even knowing that others think they are POS.

If GranpaCobra is still answering the phone at SB and folks say he's taking care of biz now, well good for him, and good for them too.

I won't recommend that anyone buy one based on just that, because tech support is not the only aspect of the business or product that needs to be addressed, but in the past tech support at sb had a crappy reputation and folks had trouble getting enough parts to build their cars...

I guess that a guy could ASSUME that RGK95 and j4strack are making all this up, I'm not going to do that.

Companies can change, Ford was building crap in the 70's, I don't think anyone will disagree that things have changed a bit since then. I won't even comment on the lawsuit issue other than the fact that SB as well as Ford are not unknown in our legal system chasing down folks who use the name in ways they dislike.

Later, mikey
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  #1107 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman2333
Ayup. SB employees coming here pretending to be customers that are well taken care of can't possibly overcome the truth of what SB does and what they are.
Please show us your evidence of that statement. I have looked at and researched both js4track and RGK95 using the resources available to moderators and saw no evidence of what you say.

Later, mikey
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  #1108 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 11:05 AM
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I was referring to posts made earlier maybe in the other SB thread. I took these two to be who they said they were, as there isn't anything proving different. Sorry for the confusion.
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  #1109 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman2333
I was referring to posts made earlier maybe in the other SB thread. I took these two to be who they said they were, as there isn't anything proving different. Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you for that clarification.
mikey
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  #1110 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 04:07 PM
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This is off the topic of the SB but to say there is little and hard to spot difference between the steel and glass cars is just a huge joke, equally ridiculous is the phrase bolts right on.
I used the word soul when I spoke of the metal car, now I will try to explain a little further for the one that this comment went over the heads…

Close the door on a metal car here that sound, it also has a more positive feel to the latching. Same goes for the vets
Tight curves and bends the same no way the glass bodies are rounded not sharp, metal is more durable, that is the reason the cars are still around. Metal does not change shape just sitting around a shop or in the sun.
I like the drip rail on the metal cars; they are delicate, crisp and have small defects where spot welded to the top. These are a few examples of the soul that lacks on the glass cars , there is a difference and it is real , from rats to vws I generally get the idea that the owners are driving and enjoying the hobby in the mode that they like ………… and that is as it should be.. I will agree we disagree and that is just fine., but you are wrong on the same same and can not tell the difference ……. that statement is all wet ..
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