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Old 10-13-2007, 08:36 PM
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Striping in new paint

I need some help with painting my car. I am using an HVLP gun and Nason Acrylic Enamel metallic green plus reducer and catalyst (single stage.) The application went on just fine with very little orange peel and I was pretty happy with the coverage. The main problem I have is a noticable striping pattern in the paint. I did eveything the way I thought I was supposed to, including overlapping the spray and I had the air pressure set according to manufacturer's specs.

I have included a picture of the trunk which I shot earlier today here:

http://home.mchsi.com/~pcrepairserv/Trunklid.jpg

I wouldn't mind shooting more coats if I could avoid the striping problem. I really don't want to resand and start over.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated!


-Kevin

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Old 10-13-2007, 08:50 PM
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Put on another medium to wet coat. Let that dry for only a couple minutes. Before it totally dries, mist the panel holding your gun nearly parallel to the panel at a distance (foot or so). This allows the metallics to drop onto the panel randomly rather than being pushed with the gun. Some just hold the gun way back and mist the panel but I prefer the parallel gun method. AKA dropcoat.

Larry
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Old 10-13-2007, 09:42 PM
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or, increase your fan pattern, step back a little farther from the surface and use more over lap.

You don't want to splatter the paint on to the surface, but let it FALL onto the surface.

Hold your gun a little farther from the surface to give the paint more time to atomize before it lands on the surface.

Make your parallel strokes closer together over lap the previous applied paint.
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:54 AM
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We use to do this by jumping back in forth between panels while working around the car. First you need good gun adjustment and spray technique, but some colors and systems are just prone to mottling. Try to avoid is much striping from the get go, to make evening of the metallic that much easier. Last coat, you need a good glossy coat but without stripping when doing metallics with a single stage. We would paint a good wet coat on a panel or two, move to the next, then jump back to the previous panel and do your mist coat. If it works out right, it will have set up enough to not contribute to uneveness (the heavier sprayed, the more prone to mottling or striping), but still wet enough to accept the mist coat. I did mine by moving back a little further and spraying at different angles on the panel. Over reducing just a touch may help some too.
Although I only sprayed a few, I don't really miss spraying old single stage enamels in metallics. Geez still remember running around trying to even out a silver in cheap Western paint on a hot day in the early 90's (friend bought red and silver for his boat). You can't wetsand and buff singlestage metallics afterwards without a clear being on top either.
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:12 AM
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had same problem painting mustang using green metallic.
i went to slower reducer and upper the pressure. worked for
me. the shop where i work uses the slowest reducer that
we can get by with.
stan g
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:41 AM
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First off, it looks like you are painting this lid off the car standing up against the wall, those are two no-nos in painting. Being a metallic color the distribution of the metallic "makes" the color what it is. The PROOF of this are your "tiger strips". Those strips are there because they are different colors, correct? If they were all the same color, you wouldn't be able to see them.

But they ARE different colors. They are differnet because of the application of the paint wasn't uniform, it wasn't the same all the way across the lid.
There is more build up, more application of material here and there which leads to....different colors.

The advice everyone has given you is right on and are all fixes for the problem. However, you may be in for other problems if you paint that lid like you are then bolt it on the car, it is likely going to be a different color than the body. I assume you are painting this whole car, if you are just painting the decklid than you probably already know that the color WILL be different than the rest of the car.

A metallic SS is a tough one to pull off, don't feel bad. One thing I have done when painting one is to not paint in the same direction between coats. One coat I will spray back and forth the next I switch it up and paint up and down or at an angle. This way you aren't building up material in the exact same way ever coat.

I would sand that baby down flat and then spray it (on the car if the rest of the car is being painted too) like the guys have said, lighter on the material control, farther away from the surface, move faster, and cross patterns and do a drop coat. Like I said, SS metallics are a bear.

Brian
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Old 10-14-2007, 03:04 PM
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Thanks for the input, everyone. One quick question - if I final coat with a mist coat to even the metallics, won't that give me less than a smooth surface (aka orange peel?)

And if it does, can a single-stage metallic be wet-sanded to smooth the finish?
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Old 10-14-2007, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54oldsguy
Thanks for the input, everyone. One quick question - if I final coat with a mist coat to even the metallics, won't that give me less than a smooth surface (aka orange peel?)
Yes, you are right. That is the tight rope you walk when doing a SS metallic. One color or brand of paint could be easier than another to get both metallic distribution AND gloss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 54oldsguy
And if it does, can a single-stage metallic be wet-sanded to smooth the finish?
Nope, not one single bit. If you cut it and buff you will be cutting into layers of metallic and you WILL be able to see it.

Are you getting an understanding on why bc/cc is so popular?

Brian
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Old 10-14-2007, 04:57 PM
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Something else about the trunk lid.
MOVE it AWAY from the "wall".
The Green paint on the plastic WILL blow off and create tiny floating chunks which will absolutely ruin your day.
Paint of any sort on plastic are future little disasters waiting for some air to give them life. Always try to position your piece where your not spraying on the "booth" walls.
No test patterns either.
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Yes, you are right. That is the tight rope you walk when doing a SS metallic. One color or brand of paint could be easier than another to get both metallic distribution AND gloss.



Nope, not one single bit. If you cut it and buff you will be cutting into layers of metallic and you WILL be able to see it.

Are you getting an understanding on why bc/cc is so popular?

Brian

Thanks. I am beginning to believe that it was a mistake going with metallic and single-stage.

I did do a final mist on the trunk lid, and sure enough, even though I got rid of the striping, I also ended up with orange peel.

The reason why I did the trunk lid separately is to make sure the coat was going to come out like I wanted it to before I did the whole thing.

It didn't.

Serious question: the rest of the car is sanded, sealed and primed - I haven't painted it yet. Should I go ahead and do the rest of the car and hope for the best or should I wait until next year and do it with bc/cc? If so, would you still recommend metallic or should I play it safe with a solid color?
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:00 PM
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I will only paint single stage in a solid color.Because, I can sand it and buff or recoat or even clear it BUT, It is a Urethane Single Stage. Enamel is for yard furniture or period correct resto's.
Metallics or other custom colors are strictly bc/cc.
If you only have the option for using Dupont,The Chromabase metallics are almost fool proof,even Silver but you need to abide by their Value Shade Primer color for correct coverage and color match you choose. Duponts 7900 clear is a winner as well as Nasons 465 or 497.
Experienced painters don't fool with enamel for a reason.
It's almost impossible to spray right and it's old tech.
So many novice's fall for the single stage trap cause they "think" it's easier & cheaper. Your story is the same as almost all the others but luckily,you have saved yourself a LOT of sanding and money by trying the enamel pony for a ride and got bucked off quickly.
I would go bc/cc and keep the Green you want. Apply the correct primer color for it with a sealer coat and actually enjoy painting.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:06 PM
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I agree, bc/cc is NOTHING like this. You shoot the color any way you want to get the metallic looking good and rely on the clear for gloss. It is as easy as pie.

Brian
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Old 10-15-2007, 02:43 PM
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I wouldn't go so far as to say bc/cc is easy as pie. lets not give people the wrong idea, but easier then metallic in a ss. I'd have to agree. Spray that base any way you want it to get it looking good, and you could be for more work burying it with clear coat as well as possible clear delimination in the future.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:06 PM
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One more question if you folks don't mind - If I go ahead and finish the job in single stage metallic and do end up with some orange peel, can I put on a clear coat later on and wet sand that? I've gotten pretty good at evening out the metallics and the only real issue I have right now is orange peel.

I still have a full, unopened gallon of paint that I really hate to lose!

BTW, thanks everyone for their input - it's been invaluable to me
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:42 PM
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Are you using a slow reducer, and playing around with the amount you reduce and your pressure? Although not as critical with an enamel as a urethane, should keep activation ratio the same, but should be able to play around with how much you reduce, or if the paint doesn't call for reduction, thats not to say you couldn't reduce it anyways, using an enamel reducer or better a good line of urethane grade reducer. Maybe it will help your gun atomize it better and get the peel down. Also does your compressor put out enough cfm to properly supply the gun you are using, some hvlp's like a lot of air and high flow fittings to function properly.
Yes you should be able to clear over a single stage enamel. Maybe jc will see this thread, I think he's done this a few times. But still you don't want a lot of orange peel when you clear over it. Enamels you have to watch when you spray the clear or more color. I think most say within so much time or wait so many days and sand then clear. Although if activated, the time should be shorter if by chance you didn't clear within the time window, and could then sand and recoat. With a metallic, sanding would mean reapplicaton of color after sanding (the whole you going to disturb the metallic sanding again, same reason your not able to sand and buff ss metallic) You would have to look at the tech sheets for the nason and see if they say anything about recoat time.
If you are planning on clearing, I'd just cut your losses, and just go with base/clear urethane system. future repairablity would be better, longer life expectancy, and ability to easier fix any mistake you would happen to get in the color, and also to buff out flaws your most likely are going to get at least a few of when clearing.
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