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Old 03-14-2010, 11:01 AM
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Stroker w/ LT1 Alum. Heads

Looking @ a set of LT1 Alum Heads form a wrecked 95' Camaro. Currently building a stroker. I have an '010' SBC, would like to use these heads, wondering if anyone has tryed this application, or heard of anyone doing this. Doesnt look as if there is any bolting issues, @ 1st glance. But I havent found this app anywhere. Any help form the GEARHEADZ? Thanks fellas.

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Old 03-14-2010, 11:49 AM
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You cannot use modern LT1 heads on anything but an LT1 engine. They have different cooling ports and won't align properly with the 010 block...
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:53 AM
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Yeah, thats what I'm finding out. Damn shame to I want to use this '010' block, but my Buddy does some salvage & scrap work. Got this car for free. Told me I could have a free for all in the engine compartment. May have to change my plans. Thanks for the heads up man.
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Old 03-14-2010, 02:01 PM
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If you can have a free for all in the engine compartment why not just take the whole engine?
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Old 03-14-2010, 03:24 PM
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I remembered OldBogie talking about this on another thread, so went back and found it. He is working with a shop to do the alterations to LT1 and LT4 heads so you can use 'em on Gen I blocks.....read here....

"I've launched a new project on an old theme of mine, that of converting LT1 and LT4 heads to run on standard Gen I blocks.

I tried a new place for me to have the necessary welding done on the coolant supply holes. This is Heads Up in Auburn, Washington, they're on the web.

Beautiful work, absolutely beautiful! You would have no way of knowing where the welds are if you didn't know where to look. Finish machining of the deck is superb, smooth and shiny done on a mill not a grinder.

If you guys have head repairs that need a high quality job, I add this to my list of recommendations.

I'm taking pictures of this project for a blogosphere in this forum, hopefully to be complete in the not to distant future, for the benefit of any other crazies out there that have discovered that there's a lot of these heads for not too much denero and are trying to figure out how to use them on a regular coolant Gen I.

In case you're wondering, I have no economic connection with these folks other than I'm spending money there. This is a simple recommendation for the greater good".

Bogie

http://www.dexknows.com/business_pro...__inc_-b261550
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:59 PM
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Blocks been tanked, fluxed, 30'd & honed. Been waitnig for time to get this project rolling. Finally have it. He was really looking to help out so I'm not going to snatch the motor just hoard it when he can make few $ from it.

Anycase I'll be stocking parts from now til fall for the motor, & stripping the truck in the meantime for preperation. I'm sure I'll posting from time to time to get some tech info. 1st 383 build. Have worked with 350's & 400's in the past. My understanding is I'm going to run into some machining issues to fit the 400 crank that I didnt calc. for when dropping of the block.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:07 PM
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Putting LT1 heads on a sbc isn't as hard as you may think. Just some welding, tapping, rerouting, and such. Same for putting a Gen 1 intake on LT heads. It takes time, but if you know how to do it it can be a fun project. I'm considering doing that myself but I think if I go that route I'll just run an LT1 engine- there's more benefits than just the heads. I have so many dream projects though and I need to either use or sell the engines I currently have.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlamarche
Blocks been tanked, fluxed, 30'd & honed. Been waitnig for time to get this project rolling. Finally have it. He was really looking to help out so I'm not going to snatch the motor just hoard it when he can make few $ from it.

Anycase I'll be stocking parts from now til fall for the motor, & stripping the truck in the meantime for preperation. I'm sure I'll posting from time to time to get some tech info. 1st 383 build. Have worked with 350's & 400's in the past. My understanding is I'm going to run into some machining issues to fit the 400 crank that I didnt calc. for when dropping of the block.
My apologies to Techinspector and you guys for letting you hang, I've been at the doc's since Thursday getting my exhaust system ported and relieved.

Yes the LT1 and LT4 is a temptation but unless you have a pair where the cost of rebuilding is essentially a sunk cost, IE you did it for another project years ago that didn't materialize or you have the equipment, or you're simply crazy you're probably money ahead to just but a set new GEN I heads.

But to do this the water entry holes on the deck surface at each end have to be welded up. They're pretty big and you should make a plug that fits the odd shape such that the welder can just do a perimeter weld around the plug instead of weaving a weld over that inch and a bit of each side of hole. Then the deck has to be milled. I went to Heads Up 'cause while I'm a fairly decent welder with steel, for some reason I tend to turn aluminum parts into globs, so knowing my limits I get a pro to do it. Welding and machining the deck was a tad under 200 bucks and I made the plugs. For gasket any Gen I that is listed for an iron block and aluminum heads will work. You will notice that a small hole of about 3/16s needs to be drilled where the giant hole had been.

The real issue is getting coolant back out of the head and to the radiator. It's possible to close up the open area into the valley where standard heads return their coolant to the intake manifold and open it thru to the internal coolant passages. But this requires welding in an oil return tube to connect the head ends to the valley. This is a lot of work and cost as this is a pretty complicated design to pull off. So I use the old Smokey Yunick/Moroso trick from the 1970's and 80s where Smokey bored into the end face of the head, tapped it for a 1 inch pipe and plumbed up to Y pipe to the radiator. The intend here was to equalize cooling in the left and right banks of the engine which otherwise tend to alternately over heat and over cool one side then the other. He tapped off the lower side of the head in an attempt to encourage more coolant flow on the exhaust side, but this caused steam and air pockets to form over the upper parts of the combustion chambers on the front and rear cylinders. Whew new ppg is needed just to get some eye relief.

OK, what I've done so far to try and compromise the situation has been to take the original LT1 and 4 vent holes on the end of the head and drill them out and tap them for 1/2 inch NTP fittings to hose. I've used aluminum AN fittings to AN hose or stainless steel barb fittings to heater hose. Both work, the AN stuff is pretty expensive. This keeps the coolant tap high on the head insuring the chambers are under coolant and any steam or air is vented off. The coolant is then routed to a Moroso water return which contains a thermostat or restrictor and a 1-1/4 inch Chevy hose return to the radiator. Alternately the rear returns can be teed together and feed the heater core and then return to the pump in the standard Chevy fashion. In total I think this configuration tends to over cool the rear combustion chambers for a street engine. But given the problems with the Chevy in competition with frying 5 and 7, this has helped there. The intake is GMPP to carb for the LT1 or 4 engine, there is no attempt to return coolant in the factory Gen I fashion.

My latest episode, which I blogged about a couple weeks ago, is for an engine going into a short road course and gymkhana Camaro. So I'm looking to an engine design that has both a lot of bottom end with a decent, but not excessive, top end. Thus the LT1 head selection to get the smaller ports and get some weight off the nose. But these heads are modded to take LT4 size valves. These will also use the GMPP for carb intake.

The coolant return will be a different design on the same theme. The rear of the heads will be left alone and a 1/4 NTP, AN fitting installed. An AN-3 line will run forward from there to provide venting over the rear chambers. At the front, each head will have a 1-1/4 inch hole drilled into the lower (exhaust side) end face. An aluminum adapter of one inch thickness will be bolted to the face. The forward factory vent will have an AN Tee fitting. The rear vent will connect to the front vent at the tee and from there connect into the adapter, or as an alternative will connect to an as yet unfabricated Y that joins the two sides to return coolant to the radiator. The intention is to combine Smokey's idea of better exhaust side cooling with keeping the upper chamber under coolant instead of steam and air. The adapters on each head will include a thermostat or individual restrictor, the attempt here is to achieve the same operating temp in each cylinder bank, something that always proves elusive to accomplish. I don't expect this engine to have the typical long race cooling issues of the SBC, this is a place to try some ideas and not risk the engine if they prove to be full of baloney.

So there you have it, I don't know if this saves any money over just buying a set of aluminum heads, however, I'm tracking that and will report as I get thru this.

Bogie
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:26 AM
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about Gen1 block with Gen2 LT1 set up,and Direct Ignition .

Yes it can be done and its realy not hard at all. i got pics and videos.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASEuro
Yes it can be done and its realy not hard at all. i got pics and videos.
"Realy not hard at all", huh?

So show the details.

I'm of the opinion that if it WERE, in fact, "realy not hard at all", Bogie and many others that have tried before him would have had this info out for public use LONG ago.

To me, heliarc, annealing and heat treating, milling, etc. doesn't qualify as "easy".

I'll be watching for your post.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:13 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
"Realy not hard at all", huh?

So show the details.

I'm of the opinion that if it WERE, in fact, "realy not hard at all", Bogie and many others that have tried before him would have had this info out for public use LONG ago.

To me, heliarc, annealing and heat treating, milling, etc. doesn't qualify as "easy".

I'll be watching for your post.

Its not that uncommon of a project actually, if you search camaro forums there's a group of guys that have done it. Its not that hard, and if you have access to a mill you can do it all in your garage. The real question should be- is it worth it?

You can get heads that surpass the LT1 capabilities out of the box for about $600 for a bare set now. No coolant routing to mess with, no welding, no milling, no tapping, no cursing when you screw something up and have to redo it... A used set of LT1 heads goes for about $150? and you get worn out guides that need to be replaced... By the time you're done on the LT1 heads you're going to be in for 30hours and about $700 bucks (unless you own a machine shop or have a good friend who does). There's a lot of really good heads going for less than a grand complete now...
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:13 AM
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Easy

I have some pics and videos on my face book , I havent set up a video here yet.

You already know how to get the LT1 heads done to mate the gen 1 block im understanding. if you think thats hard, you got more learning to do. then comes the powertrain system. if you dont know anything about electrical systems, this will be hard for you, and if you dont know anything about computer control systems, this will really be hard for you.

but heres the run down, gen1 block mated with gen2 lt1 heads, and wire up and configure computer to meet the timing needs for the engine.

I did in less than 4 months, and thats with salvaged parts from a junk yard.

I have pics on here of the engine mod. and more on facebook.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:21 AM
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Did it in less than 4 months? And you question MY abilities? lol

Whatever, guy.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
and if you have access to a mill you can do it all in your garage.
A mill. In my garage.

No, I don't seem to see one just now. Might be over in the corner somewhere. lol

Of course I don't have a freaking mill in my garage! Neither does 99.99% of the guys here, I'd wager.

And anyway, w/so many GOOD heads available, like has been already said- unless you have the heads basically free and a lot of desire, there's not much point in it, anyway.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Its not that uncommon of a project actually, if you search camaro forums there's a group of guys that have done it. Its not that hard, and if you have access to a mill you can do it all in your garage. The real question should be- is it worth it?

You can get heads that surpass the LT1 capabilities out of the box for about $600 for a bare set now. No coolant routing to mess with, no welding, no milling, no tapping, no cursing when you screw something up and have to redo it... A used set of LT1 heads goes for about $150? and you get worn out guides that need to be replaced... By the time you're done on the LT1 heads you're going to be in for 30hours and about $700 bucks (unless you own a machine shop or have a good friend who does). There's a lot of really good heads going for less than a grand complete now...

I paid 150 bucks for heads at a local junkyard, 150 bucks for motor with bad heads. 175 bucks for cranck grind and head welds to be milled to perfection, 78 bucks for head set, used $30 BMW fuel pump out of a e46 type car, $150 used 4.6 modulator engine out of a 96 ford crown vic and the computer out of the same car for 50 bucks. spark plugs , filters, oil, coolant, and about 60 bucks for plumbing for the new routed coolant passages.
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