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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2005, 07:03 AM
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stud welder

i have picked up a stud welder from harbor frieght.i have done a search and i picked up the hint of not holding the trigger too long.how about how to attack the dent placement of studs and such.i will get out there and play with it next weekend.i will use it mostly on older truck 1962 gmc.thanks

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Old 12-18-2005, 07:27 AM
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First a few things you will need to know.

Transformers in a stud gun is the stud gun period.

The HF gun you bought is a very low grade transformer.
Many reports of it stop welding studs after a number of times using gun.

VERY IMPORTANT:
To help preserve the transformer, do not use a house hold extension cord, if you must use an extension cord at all make one out of 10-12 GA household wire.

Trigger with most stud guns you want no more than one second, so hit and release trigger but like you said playing on a scrap metal will be best bet.

Studs- most over looked.
The studs you get with that gun will be very poor quality.
Only one company is left in the US that still makes studs here and they are a Canada company H&S Auto shot

These are the best studs for strength and welding to car.
ALL the other studs are made overseas and cheaper material and and to stiff.

Compare a stud by how flexible it is and you will see a motorguard or whatever will be a lot stiffer than a H&S.
This makes a big difference when welding the stud to metal.
Most true with a weaker transformer.

Also the overseas studs can tear the metal when you remove them.
You should never have to grind a stud off, take a pair if wire cutters and grab stud next to base at metal, don't cut but twist stud and it should come right off.
Stiff studs take more juice and because of this do not like to twist off.
Now, you would think with that statement the overseas studs would stick better but that is not true and there is about 40-60% more strength with a flexible stud for pulling.

Last edited by BarryK; 12-18-2005 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 12-18-2005, 09:07 AM
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I read the title and thought this a thread for employment. Oh well, I'm not a great welder anyway.
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Old 12-19-2005, 06:27 AM
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bump

maybe i will get more answers on the work days thanks
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
First a few things you will need to know.

Transformers in a stud gun is the stud gun period.

The HF gun you bought is a very low grade transformer.
Many reports of it stop welding studs after a number of times using gun.

VERY IMPORTANT:
To help preserve the transformer, do not use a house hold extension cord, if you must use an extension cord at all make one out of 10-12 GA household wire.

Trigger with most stud guns you want no more than one second, so hit and release trigger but like you said playing on a scrap metal will be best bet.

Studs- most over looked.
The studs you get with that gun will be very poor quality.
Only one company is left in the US that still makes studs here and they are a Canada company H&S Auto shot

These are the best studs for strength and welding to car.
ALL the other studs are made overseas and cheaper material and and to stiff.

Compare a stud by how flexible it is and you will see a motorguard or whatever will be a lot stiffer than a H&S.
This makes a big difference when welding the stud to metal.
Most true with a weaker transformer.

Also the overseas studs can tear the metal when you remove them.
You should never have to grind a stud off, take a pair if wire cutters and grab stud next to base at metal, don't cut but twist stud and it should come right off.
Stiff studs take more juice and because of this do not like to twist off.
Now, you would think with that statement the overseas studs would stick better but that is not true and there is about 40-60% more strength with a flexible stud for pulling.
After Barry's explanation what else you need to know ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
You should never have to grind a stud off, take a pair if wire cutters and grab stud next to base at metal, don't cut but twist stud and it should come right off .
So you can reuse them .

Take Care
Earl
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Old 12-20-2005, 12:02 AM
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I bought one of those stud welders at H/F and it managed to stick probably 2 or 3 studs then just kept triggering the breaker.. I took the damn thing back and got my money back, and went and bought a good one from another tool co, works great,, but I also bought a SPOT welder from H/F [the 220 volt] on sale for 160 bucks,, and it work fantastic,, some of their stuff works ,, some don't, just have to weed it out,, Bill
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Old 12-20-2005, 04:15 AM
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I bought one of the HF stud guns about 1 1/2 years ago. I don't use it all that often, but have had good luck with it for smaller stuff. The slide hammer that came with it is a real pain. The studs get stuck in it easy, if they are the larger ones. If they are the smaller ones, it won't even grip them. I bought a "T-handle" from one of the tool guys, to pull the studs, and really like using that. It gives you more control.

Aaron
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Old 12-20-2005, 07:59 AM
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Stud guns should be used in body shops where quick money is the rule, not on your lovely hotrod (smile). There are far better methods to employ than a stud gun for fixing dents. Pulling sheet metal is a method that works well for major collisions with accordioned panels to help reverse damage along with other methods, but fixing basic dents by pulling is a quick and dirty way to go that makes a mess of the metal surface...fine if you plan to use plenty of filler, but not so good if you want to do your best possible work with little or no filler. If hammer and dolly work (best) does not appeal to you, a more viable method of pulling (my opinion only) would be one that MartinSR (Brian) posted on another board. I forget what it was called. Brian?

John
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Old 12-20-2005, 09:14 AM
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I use them all the time for VERY small dings. This is on late model tin foil cars. But I have to say, I have gotten into the habit of using the PDR glue on stud kit, I have to say, I AM finally learning this PDR stuff and am thrilled.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

“Basics of Basics” Stud welder
By Brian Martin

I had a stud welder for about 14 years and had been using it wrong for about 12 of them. Like most guys I see using them do what I did (which is how I learned) use WAY too much heat and BURN the stud in. Then I'd cut it off the stud with wire cutters and grind it flush. WRONG, I had a guy show me that had help develop the tool back in the seventies.

Don't hold the trigger till the thing melts in. If you see ANY color distortion in the metal, you have heated WAY too much. Just tap the trigger like you tap the keys on your keyboard typing, maybe even faster. The stud WILL hold good enough to pull. The trick is you can't move the stud side to side or anything, it will fall off. But if you just slide your pulling tool on straight and pull straight, it will stay. Then after you pull you just wiggle the stud a little and it falls off, with no damage to the metal.

I have even found that you can use it on small dents and metal finish the repair with no filler used. Cool tool
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Old 12-20-2005, 07:29 PM
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Glad I checked out this post. I've been doing it wrong for a long time. And grinding off those studs made uncomfortably hot sparks too. No more hot sparks!

Great advice guys.
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:05 AM
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Hi Brian,

I was asking about that other tool you showed on autobodystore.com...some kind of clever little leverage device...

John
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Old 12-21-2005, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kelly
Stud guns should be used in body shops where quick money is the rule, not on your lovely hotrod (smile). There are far better methods to employ than a stud gun for fixing dents. Pulling sheet metal is a method that works well for major collisions with accordioned panels to help reverse damage along with other methods, but fixing basic dents by pulling is a quick and dirty way to go that makes a mess of the metal surface...fine if you plan to use plenty of filler, but not so good if you want to do your best possible work with little or no filler. If hammer and dolly work (best) does not appeal to you, a more viable method of pulling (my opinion only) would be one that MartinSR (Brian) posted on another board. I forget what it was called. Brian?

John
**********************************************

I totally disagree with the above statement.

Non total disassembly's you cannot get to inner part of the panel and many a times I have pulled a ding out and then switch to the shrinking tip and metal finished for primer.
I have done complete hoods that were hail damaged like this before.

You don't need to be a butcher to use one of these tools.
Like any tool they have there place and are a supplement to other tools.
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Old 12-21-2005, 09:53 AM
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Hi Barry,

I'm sure you can do good work with any tool, but if you are working on a car more valuable or special than a grocery getter, perhaps better metal finishing methods should be brought up as well?

Stud welders have their place, and in competent hands they are a good tool...just not the only tool, and an expensive one that is not needed to do good work. They are often used as a poor replacement for hammer and dolly work instead of as a compromise tool for working on backside-inaccessible areas. Much like the mig welder that so many think they have to have to weld on car bodies. There is a better way.

I'm sorry if you got the impression that I think people using stud welders are butchers. My post may have come off as abrasive...for that I apologize. Fantastic results can be achieved by almost any tool, but some methods and tools are better than others for some applications, and budgets.

The original post was about a dent not a ding. Dents can be far more complex than a simple ding, and require more subtle uses of force and heat than is easily applied with a stud welder.

John
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Old 12-21-2005, 02:10 PM
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I'm sure you can do good work with any tool, but if you are working on a car more valuable or special than a grocery getter, perhaps better metal finishing methods should be brought up as well?

*********************************************

Excuse me S-A, but I don't do grocery getters and if you metal finish a spot on any car where it does not need filler why would it matter if you used a tree branch? If it fixed its fixed.

Also stated some panels are sealed or hidded with braces like hoods.
So who cares?
If it works for you it works so it don't matter.
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Old 12-21-2005, 03:02 PM
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Obviously I rub you the wrong way. My opinions bother you evidently. More power to you for metal finishing with a stud welder.

Again, I apologize.

John
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