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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2010, 05:06 AM
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I've never used sumit but I'd would play it safe and use their reducer on my first time using it ...you'll have enough trouble getting it right ..You wouldnt believe how many mistakes can be made even if you follow all the directions..

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2010, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintKem
Yes, I have been blessed to be an automotive paint chemist and a hobby painter for many years now. It is a lot of fun to be part of this industry.

The PPG DT series reducer does have ingredients in it that are not strong solvents (called diluents when used in this manner) for epoxy or even most urethane resins for that matter. However, there are enough good solvents in there to keep everything in solution. The point I was making is that at face value the Rustoleum blend reported actually contains better solvents for epoxy than the PPG. As you and I both said the potential water content of the rustoleum reducer could be a problem but if it were managed properly by rustoleum would not be a problem. Acetone is indeed always a tough one to keep dry.
Thanks for the explanation, I hope you decide to stay and share more of this kind of knowledge!

I think I may have a knee-jerk reaction against anything that says "Rustoleum" on the can, at least when it comes to doing quality automotive refinish work. Some of their products may indeed be suitable, though usually the MSDS does not tell the whole story.

P.S. I think that word I was looking for re acetone was actually "hygroscopic," not "hydrophilic," but I couldn't edit it after I'd had my coffee and realized it, lol.
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:47 AM
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I have no idea what hydro scopic or phillic means sounds like water "hydro" and something to do with water amounts or size maybe "scopic" ? but I'm just an old body man that uses different quality materials for different quality jobs because ,not everyone wants or can afford my very best work and I cant afford to do nor want to do only one kind of job. All I know is the higher quality reducers have less water content....amoung other things...
when I wanted to use my brand of epoxy as a sealer I called the hotline and spoke to fhe man that makes it ...I explained I didnt use much sealer so I didnt want to buy a whole gallon of his reducer just to spray some sealer one time so he recomended using base maker (chroma base by Dupont)because I had it already and one of the things that made it better was it had less water content than my other reduser by Dupont ,which was a lot cheaper,Nason ...Both would work. He never used words like Hydro scopic ...but just because you use quality materials dosent mean you do or will get a quality job ,it takes lots of practice and altho us guys that make our living at restoring and repairing cars will cross mix different brands and it works fine ,sometimes it dont...so play it safe and use the componets that they recomend and follow the directions for what ever products your using.
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:43 PM
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Is it necessary to use paint strainers, and if so is 60/70 mesh OK for the epoxy?
I bought some of these strainers but they also had some that were around 120 mesh I think?.........I just figured the higher the number the higher the strand count in the mesh so a lower number would probably work better with a thicker paint.
The HVLP gun I will be using has a 1.4 tip on it so will the epoxy shoot through this OK and will it shoot better if I do use the reduce? I know it says to reduce it as much as 20% for sealer but if I just wanted to thin it a little what if I just used 10% reducer? wold that be better than using the full 20%? I know some of ya were saying not to use it.
One last thing, I am going to say that if I am using 32oz of primer/catalyst + 20% reducer (6.4oz) = 38.4oz correct? or just the 10% would be 3.2oz reducer.
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoonshine
Is it necessary to use paint strainers, and if so is 60/70 mesh OK for the epoxy?
I bought some of these strainers but they also had some that were around 120 mesh I think?.........I just figured the higher the number the higher the strand count in the mesh so a lower number would probably work better with a thicker paint.
The HVLP gun I will be using has a 1.4 tip on it so will the epoxy shoot through this OK and will it shoot better if I do use the reduce? I know it says to reduce it as much as 20% for sealer but if I just wanted to thin it a little what if I just used 10% reducer? wold that be better than using the full 20%? I know some of ya were saying not to use it.
One last thing, I am going to say that if I am using 32oz of primer/catalyst + 20% reducer (6.4oz) = 38.4oz correct? or just the 10% would be 3.2oz reducer.
It is advisable to use a strainer to keep out foreign matter and even semi-dried bits of material from the edge of the container that may not catalyze properly.

The paper strainers supplied by my jobber are rated in microns, the most commonly used sizes range from 125 to 190 micron. I use 125s for sealers, clears, solid colors, and some primers, and 190s for metallics, pearls, and poly primer.

It's OK to use a smaller mesh with epoxy primer, as it is not too viscose to pour through a fine mesh like some poly primers.

If you are shooting epoxy on bare metal, or as a primer for bodywork, less reducer is better. Sometimes a new painter will have better luck with a small amount of reduction, even 5% will make a difference in the spray characteristics of the material if you are having trouble laying it out. Try it unreduced first, especially on bare metal.

P.S. Your arithmetic looks OK to me.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2010, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintKem
Well from the looks of it the ppg has a little more to it than the rustoleum
ppg lists,
1-METHOXY-2-PROPYL ACETATE
2-METHYLCYCLOHEXANE - POOR FOR EPOXY
3-TOLUENE
4-N-HEPTANE POOR FOR EPOXY
5-NAPHTHA POOR FOR EPOXY
6-METHYL ETHYL KETONE
7-V.M. AND P. NAPHTHA POOR FOR EPOXY

rustoleum lists only,
1-Acetone - Excellent in Epoxy
2-Methyl n- Amyl Ketone - Excellent in Epoxy
3-Ethyl 3 -ethoxy propionate - Fair to good in epoxy
Well I received the Summit universal urethane reducer and this is what it lists as ingredients
Methyl Ethyl Ketone
1-Methyoxy-2-Propanol Acetate
Dimethylketone
N-Butyl Acetate
Toluol
Naphtha VM&P
Xylene
looks allot like PPG's list except for less $ and it smells just like acetone as to where the Rustoleum actually smelled sweet/pleasing(almost addictive ), kinda like fruit
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2010, 08:50 AM
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Dimethyl ketone is acetone.

Methyl ethyl ketone also smells like acetone and is also hygroscopic, I believe. It's like a slower version of acetone.

Keep it tightly capped at all times, open only briefly to pour.
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