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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
If you find another product that you like better then of course use it. I would.

I just ordered and used my first SPI epoxy and am a new convert. it sprayed perfectly with a 1.4 tip. It actually had enough build properties that I was able to block it out for a small repair. It sanded well and did not clog the paper as most Epoxies will do. I personally believe it is the best I have ever used and am anxious to try their other products. While Epoxy is not billed as a high build primer to be able to do some moderate building with it is a real plus. Instead of using an Epoxy primer, 2k high build primer, and sealer it allowed everything to be done in one step...... Prime with epoxy, block and paint. Ain't life grand?

Just as a matter of record, I have been using PPG DP40LF up to this point.

John L
Just be advised, John, that there is a minimum build thickness required for the epoxy to do what it does best, or it WILL rust back through.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 06:13 PM
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ok, so lets do some math....You can get SPI (an exellent epoxy primer) for somewhere around 150.00 (,could be 200.00 I'll have to double check) thats with the activator, thats a 1:1 mix ratio,so you actually get 2 sprayable gallons of primer.and not need a 2k you can use the epoxy in place of a 2k ,(not something you can do with most other E primers) so figure a gal for the metal and a gal for covering the filler and building for blocking..You'll use it all..mabee more...
.
Whats the mix ratio for the Sumit epoxy and how much does it cost for the primer and the activator?? it would be interesting to know how much savings there actually is between the two and if its worth it...
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:28 PM
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From an amateur's point of view, suggesting to use epoxy as a building primer to a novice isn't an advantage or a selling point, it's just going to cost them more money to use a lot of a product to fill and build that is more expensive than the product designed to do so (their 2k) that builds and sands a lot better. I can make my statement accurately because absolutely represent that group.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
Just be advised, John, that there is a minimum build thickness required for the epoxy to do what it does best, or it WILL rust back through.
Understood Josh.

John L
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
From an amateur's point of view, suggesting to use epoxy as a building primer to a novice isn't an advantage or a selling point, it's just going to cost them more money to use a lot of a product to fill and build that is more expensive than the product designed to do so (their 2k) that builds and sands a lot better. I can make my statement accurately because absolutely represent that group.
It depends what you are doing Josh. Look at my "last picture". My door had chipped paint and I needed to build and feather the corner of the cowl. I normally would have used a 2k primer there but for an area that size I just put an extra couple of coats of SPI epoxy over about an 5 hour period, gave it 4 days and blocked it out. One step and it is ready to paint. Cost is not an issue since I only used 150 ML of sprayable product. I do not think I would have done that with DPLF. For one thing, it does not have the build qualities and second it is pretty gummy to block sand until it sits a long time. JMHO

No one, me or anyone else would suggest that Epoxy primer replaces good 2k high build primer.

John L
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 07:39 PM
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Just thought but I wonder how many cars have been sold at Barrett Jackson that had summit products on them? If memory serves me correctly there were around 40 or so at Arizona last year wearing SPI products.

Just for the record also I would never recommend using epoxy I replace 2k high build if you use high build primer. Like stated by me and several others. If you have a product you like, that provides adequate outcome for your projects then by all means continue to use them. I prefer to use products that I can stake my reputation on. Because my reputation is my advertisement. I don't want a customer to come back in six months wanting to know why the paint is falling off his car or for someone to see it and ask who made that mess. I place a lot of pride in my work and therefore I use high quality products that I know will last. That's not always the cheapest way to go but I can sleep well at night knowing I will have work to do tomorrow.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
Just thought but I wonder how many cars have been sold at Barrett Jackson that had summit products on them? If memory serves me correctly there were around 40 or so at Arizona last year wearing SPI products.

Just for the record also I would never recommend using epoxy I replace 2k high build if you use high build primer. Like stated by me and several others. If you have a product you like, that provides adequate outcome for your projects then by all means continue to use them. I prefer to use products that I can stake my reputation on. Because my reputation is my advertisement. I don't want a customer to come back in six months wanting to know why the paint is falling off his car or for someone to see it and ask who made that mess. I place a lot of pride in my work and therefore I use high quality products that I know will last. That's not always the cheapest way to go but I can sleep well at night knowing I will have work to do tomorrow.
I will not come back after this Kelly. I am afraid I will appear to be overly defensive. I knew Mike (deadbodyman) had done this. When I ordered the material I asked Barry at SPI what he thought about this and he advised the epoxy is tougher than the 2k primer and said I could do it without fear. He would have not approved a questionable proceedure.

John L
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by John long View Post
I will not come back after this Kelly. I am afraid I will appear to be overly defensive. I knew Mike (deadbodyman) had done this. When I ordered the material I asked Barry at SPI what he thought about this and he advised the epoxy is tougher than the 2k primer and said I could do it without fear. He would have not approved a questionable proceedure.

John L
John I apologize for the bad wording on my part. I didn't mean to sound like I thought you had done something wrong. I think the epoxy would be a better choice if the bodywork was done well and time wasn't an issue. And I am sure you were fine to do so if Barry said you were. I generally don't use high build unless its a production type job where time is an issue. Again I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was actually agreeing with you earlier post where you said no one was suggesting epoxy replaces a good high build. Good being the key word.


Kelly
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:22 PM
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Well, DBM is saying you can use it in place of 2k. Maybe he can, but for myself and other people like me, I don't think it's practical for doing an entire car. And that's me saying that after spraying 2.5 gallons of it so far. John could get away doing an entire car with it; he's just too humble about his skill level. However, what I can't make look perfect with good metal work can look real good with Slick Sand

I still block my epoxy so I know where to fill or bump, but after getting so much flash rust coming through over time, so many of my panels I had to completely sand everything off and start over, so now I'm sure to put on another 1-2 wet coats after blocking and filling. Initially I lay down two coats to bare metal.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:39 PM
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Kelly, forgive me if I was being hypersensative. We are fine.

Josh, You are 100% correct. Neither Mike nor I or anyone else would suggest you replace a good high build primer with epoxy to do an intire car. Yes it will build and yes it can be blocked and yes it is tuff but it would be prohibitive both from a build standpoint and labor standpoint to use it in that way for restoration work. It was just a great way to fix my little problem without going through a bunch of extra steps.

Thanks guys
John
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:46 PM
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Just finished up the last project using the epoxy in place of the 2K primer. This was my first time doing it this way and wanted to see for myself how it would work. First off all my "heavy bodywork" is finished with poly primer, so by the time I am ready for the epoxy its basically used to "seal" off the poly as a barrier over that. I will block out the epoxy (3 coats) then I am ready to topcoat after that. Pretty much just using the 2K or epoxy as a fine tune blocking after the final blocking of poly. The drawback to doing this is with 3 coats of epoxy it takes a while to cure before it is ready to block. As with a good 2K it can easily be done the next day. So as mentioned earlier if time is an issue then replacing the 2K with epoxy could slow down the process. Figured I would mention this as I have just tried it.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2013, 05:27 AM
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Just to be clear ...I am saying You can use "SPI" epoxy to do the building of the entire car as long as your filler work is "dead" on if you need a 2k to make the filler look good the epoxy wont take its place,However,for straightening the body with blocking can replace 2k ,even preform better later on because of it chip resistance...You cant get the epoxy to build as thick as 2k all at once, You spray 2 coats let it sit then 2 more coats.I've sprayed as much as 8 coats and built it enough to fill 36 grit scratches and did this on purpose just to see.....It does take time to cure but its worth the wait....
I got pics of the what I did with the 8 coats and how it coverd and filled If anyone wants to see them I'd be happy to show them PLUS that was a few yrs ago and I still have the car so it holds up to the test of time also...
So yes,I am sayin that you can completely eliminate using any 2k build primer with SPI epoxy....once your filler skills reach a certain level and you have the time for it to cure.
I still keep some 2k around but I go through a gallon of epoxy and activator (2gal) to a qt of 2k...
I would think it would actually be well suited for the novice since they can spray it one weekend and the next start sanding....
Or the resto shops
but not so much for your normal everyday body shop that has to pump em out....thats where the 2k comes in handy...
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2013, 06:36 AM
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Mike, I just tried some SPI Epoxy...and abused it...I did a bunch of 18" X 18" test panels...on one, I ground a spot about 10" X 10" with a 24 grit disc buzzed the 18" X 18" panel with 80 grit on my DA, (not a real harsh buzz but enough to rough up the edges for mechanical adhesion)...I applied 2 wet coats with a 1.8 tip (not puddling wet but much heavier than I normally would), allowed about 2 hours flash at about 70 degrees between coats and let it sit for about a week to cure....I blocked out the primer....it seemed to take care of the scratches...I painted it about 10 days ago and it still looks good...didn't sink or die back....(A disclaimer here, I don't recommend this or would I ever do it on a customer's vehicle or anything I really cared about...it was a test panel and wanted to see how far I could push it.)

Mike, when you sprayed your 8 coats of epoxy to cover 36 grit scratches, was it sprayed fairly lightly or heavy? The reason I'm asking is because I seem to have more or less filled 24 grit scratches with 2 coats being sprayed leaning on the wet side. Did I abuse the product...you bet I did...will the test panel die back or sink...it should, because after sanding there isn't enough product to evenly fill the profile left with the grinding disc. I will say I am impressed with what I've seen so far.

Ray
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2013, 07:38 AM
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Summit epoxy primer is mixed 1 to 1. I was going to use SPI epoxy primer but I wouldn't of needed 2 gals. of it. I didn't see any less than 1 gal. of SPI epoxy on their site. Summit sells theirs by qts. & gals. Its 16.00 a qt.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogwater View Post
Summit epoxy primer is mixed 1 to 1. I was going to use SPI epoxy primer but I wouldn't of needed 2 gals. of it. I didn't see any less than 1 gal. of SPI epoxy on their site. Summit sells theirs by qts. & gals. Its 16.00 a qt.
You just missed it Dogwater. They list it in qts and that is how I ordered it.

John L
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