Supercharge it! The replacement for displacement... Roots, Twin Screw, Centrifugal? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 12-11-2004, 02:18 PM
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Cool Supercharge it! The replacement for displacement... Roots, Twin Screw, Centrifugal?

Or:
How I learned to stop worrying, and love the blower.

Superchargers are great. They look intimidating, sound impressive, and can generate huge amounts of HP and Torque. They are also often misunderstood, and take a backseat to their little brother the Turbo.

To clear up gaps in my understanding, and hopefully shed light for a few others, I wanted to draw upon the experience here on this board. Let's hear what you know, and get some vital knowledge from those of you with first hand experience.

There are 3 types of superchargers for your hotrod: Roots, Centrifugal, and Twin Screw. Each have their advantages and disadvantages. In the end it comes down to your application, and budget.

Roots:
The blower! Sticking out of the hood of many a hot rod, it has come to symbolize raw power and even hot rodding itself. There is even one on the car in the hot rodders logo. These are the superchargers you see power the professional drag cars. They can move mass amounts of air and generate loads of HP and Torque. But they are best at low RPM's. They work by forcing air into the manifold using lobed rotors. It forces more air into the engine than it can use, causing it to compress inside the manifold. However, the way they move air also heats it more than other "positive displacement" superchargers. So at higher RPM's the added heat it generates will start to hurt it's performance.

Centrifugal:
The belt driven turbo. These do not suffer from the turbo lag exhaust driven turbos experience, but they work essentially the same way. They spin a compressor between the air filter and the manifold. The compressor draws in additional air compresses and accelerates it into the engine. This is a "positive displacement" supercharger, becauses the air is being compressed inside the supercharger, not just being stacked up inside the manifold. These do not have the same problem at high RPM's. They don't generate as much heat as a roots. However, they have to spin up in order to really be effective. This results in poorer performance at lower RPM's.

Twin Screw:
Probably the newest addition to the aftermarket. A twin screw supercharger uses two interlocking "screws" to pull air in, compress it, and spit it out the other side. They don't have to spin up like a centrifugal, helping their low RPM power, but they also don't thrash and heat the air like a roots, helping their high RPM power. Twin screw superchargers however are expensive. They have higher manufacturing costs, and they are not available from a wide range of competitors.

Intercoolers:
I'm sure you all know this, but an intercooler is often used with superchargers to cool the compressed air before it is sent into the engine. This helps eliminate the additional heat generated by all superchargers, and since cool air is more dense, it helps power. Intercoolers can be used with all types of superchargers.

Does anyone have experience with any of these types of superchargers? The theory is one thing, real world experience another. I think we could all benefit from hearing how some of you have used them, and how you got the most out of them.

Also, there are many different manufacturers with different takes on the archetypes. What are some of the cost/performance comparisons you have done?

Eaton: Roots type
Procharger: Centrifugal type
Whipple: Twin Screw type

As for the Whipple, they make superchargers for both big and small block Chevy engines. They don't advertise them well, but they sell a small block Chevy kit for about $3,500. This sounds like more than I have heard other manufacturers sell their kits for.

Thoughts?

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Old 12-11-2004, 05:14 PM
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What's the question?

Royce
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Old 12-11-2004, 05:20 PM
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huffing and puffing

Dittos Camaroman;
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Old 12-11-2004, 06:09 PM
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Wrong Forum to chat Please read the Guidelines for posting.
Must be the age thing.
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Old 12-11-2004, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Does anyone have experience with any of these types of superchargers?
I had a '79 monza with a roots SCed 400sbc & inline 4speed.
If I had that car back I would have choose the th400 to the 4speed.I think there was boost left in the intake tract that continued to rev the engine for that split second more after the throttle was released.
Also I would have paid closer attention to plug selection...using a too cold of plug and work my way up to a 43. Blowers, just like nitrous, do NOT like hot plugs.
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Old 12-11-2004, 06:28 PM
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troll.
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Old 12-11-2004, 10:01 PM
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what makes you say troll, killer? Maybe he's just looking for an informative discussion on superchargers.
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Old 12-12-2004, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mad Maggot
what makes you say troll, killer? Maybe he's just looking for an informative discussion on superchargers.
well first of all the guy says he's 7 years old, which is a crock (ok, may be a typo)

Second he posts a half question with no punchline in the engine forum with info that is very obviously cut and pasted from somebody else.

K
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Old 12-12-2004, 04:15 AM
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Troll? How was this trolling for anything? Frankly I'm suprised at the venom this post was met with. I asked several questions, hoping to get a good discussion about superchargers started. I covered the basics so that we didn't rehash old ground. This isn't something posted from somewhere else. I just proof read before I post. If no one wants to give up any info that is fine, just let the post die of neglect. It just seems to me that a lot of people know generally how they work, but there hasn't been a lot of discussion about real world issues. Why anyone would get bent over this post is beyond me. I'm looking at using one in my engine build, but I have zero experience with them. I was hoping to glean some useful information here.

NXS posted something I thought was interesting. I am not familiar with the term hot or cold plugs. I would like some clarification. This is the kind of discussion I was looking for. Not a discussion of my posted age...

Once again the questions:
1. Does anyone have experience with any of these types of superchargers? I think we could all benefit from hearing how some of you have used them, and how you got the most out of them.
2 Also, there are many different manufacturers with different takes on the archetypes. What are some of the cost/performance comparisons you have done?
I will add another:
3. What are hot or cold plugs, and how would they effect your engine performance?
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Old 12-12-2004, 07:23 AM
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Its all in the Knowledge Base, if you follow the Guidelines for Posting you would get more help on proper questions and not repeat ones like this.
I also considered this one like a troll would post.
There are numerous site's like this one that explains it all.
http://www.proficientperformance.com...erchargers.htm
All you have to do is follow the directions and get the answers yourself if you really want them. At the bottom you only asked for thoughts, that is not a question, I only read 2 unreal questions in your posting and can be answered in the KB, try it you will like it.
By reading your posting its really self explanatory.
You have cut and pasted which you have taken from some type of Knowledge on the subject and should have given the info you are asking for. How about doing a site search as explained in the Guidelines, it would have pulled up all the info that has been discussed before on the same but better asked questions.
So what is your question for this Forum after reading the Guidelines ?
Hot and cold plugs are in the Knowledge Base and stop adding different questions to the original if there was one.
This is common of what trolls do.
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Old 12-12-2004, 08:16 AM
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Wow, you guys are really on troll patrol today. I did not think that there was a whole lot wrong with his post. From what I gather he is looking for a technical discussion above and beyond what he and most people already know. Perhaps the life expectancy of any of the types....I dont know much about that. How about the maintenance to keep them from eating themselves.

It kindof look that he copied a post from somewhere else or out of book. I think maybe admitting that might be a good place to get people interested in posting. On the other hand, he might just have a little better grammar skills than we are used to....which is nice. Here is another post that would suggest the latter: http://www.hotrodders.com/t53744.html

Chris
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Old 12-12-2004, 08:31 AM
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This should have been in the Hotrodding Basics Forum, like you said Chris this is his second posting on the same thing.
http://www.hotrodders.com/t53744.html
The info was given plus all the sites needed.
Its redundant to keep posting the same.

If you do not know the maintenance to keep them from eating themselves up, you should not own a system then.
If its self installed then you should know how to do any maintainance on it, self explainitory.
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Old 12-12-2004, 12:41 PM
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I was in no way trying to be rude or un-helpful. To me the post just stated a few facts and that was it. There was nothing to discuss. I didn't see any questions. If he has specific questions and I could have answered them I would have.

Yes, I have experience with blowers. I still don't kow what he is asking, maybe I am missing something.

Royce
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Old 12-12-2004, 02:31 PM
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We seem to be spending a lot of time covering where and how I should have posted, and not a lot of time discussing engines. We could spend all day argueing about whether or not I am a plagiarizing troll who can't use a search feature. Let me clear it up then: I am not.

To those who are very concerned about my motives: I have read the posting guidelines, and searched the knowledge base. It is true that there is good information to be found in the knowledge base. I have looked through it (although I am sure I have missed some of it). Much of it covers the basics that, if I needed to know I would have posted this in the basics section. I was hoping for more detail from those with more experience than I have. I did not copy this from anywhere. I am suprised and a little irritated at the accusation. I was trying to not rehash old ground by telling everyone what I knew and what I would like to know. The websites mentioned are full of great marketing information from the companies trying to sell me their product. I didn't post here looking for links to manufacturers sites. As I asked for, I was trying to get real world experience to draw from. I posted a request for supercharger information in the engine forum. That makes sense to me. Maybe not to others, but to me a request for peoples experiences with building supercharged engines belongs in the engine forum. Finally, I started this post in addition to the other mentioned here, because I felt like I was following the posting guidelines by trying to keep the original on topic. It felt like it was becoming a supercharger discussion specifically, so I created a new thread to discuss that and keep the original post on topic.

I am planning on building a supercharged engine. I am trying to get any help or experience I can from the experts here. I could use help. I also felt that there is a lot of general information, but not the level of detail you might find posted about heads for example. That is why I posted. This post further reinforces that belief. That there is a certain level of voodoo associated with forced induction. Bolt it on, sacrifice a chicken, say a chant, turn the engine over, hope for horse power. I am just trying to do this right.

I know people are going to hammer this post too. I didn't ask a specific question, or I didn't find some specific article that explains it all. That is fine, the posting guidelines didn't tell me I could only ask one question at a time, and you can never find an article with the same information an honest discussion can deliver. I, and I'm sure others, could benefit from the experience of those who have been there.

So, I didn't feel that I did anything so horrific as to start this vitriolic discussion of my posting etiquette. I was polite as per the guidelines. I felt like I was posting in the appropriate forum. I searched for previous information and couldn't find the level of detail I was asking for. I was trying to keep the original post on topic. I didn't use all caps. I was descriptive. I didn't advertise anything, use foul language, and I most certainly did not copy from anywhere else.

Maybe I made some mistake I don't understand, and maybe people just don't have a lot of information. But either way, can we get this post back on topic? If you feel like I did a terrible job here, start a different thread, and we can discuss it there, if anyone wants to keep discussing the post, that is your prerogative, but if you want to talk about superchargers I am listening.
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Old 12-12-2004, 03:12 PM
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superchargers

I've been wanting to put a procharger on my 69 big block Corvette for 10 years or so. At first, I didn't want to punch a hole in my oil pan, but now they have remedied that problem and made their superchargers self lubricating. Now I'm trying to figure out how I can mount the thing on the passenger's side of the engine (There's a beautiful spot there because there is no air conditioning on my car) Prochargers said that it could be done, in fact they said "no Problem" but I'd have to fabricate the mounting brackets because they don't make them. That's more than I can handle. Switching the alternator to the pass side is another possibility, but then I don't know if there'd be enough room for the Procharger because of the power steering pump is on the driver's side too. March pulleys are of no help..at least that has been my experience. I see all these big blocks with prochargers but no info I can find about converting the alt and power steering pump so I can fit it on the driver's side. I don't want to cut a hole in my hood..so I'd love to have a procharger and/or intercooler.... I'm just not saavy enough to put this together yet...it definitely looks like I'll have to get some professional help! Any suggestions?
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