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Old 05-28-2011, 02:32 PM
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surefire engine autozone?

I found out that autozone can order crate engines for my 1977 firebird, i've still been juggling options with it, debating v6 vs v8, and i was thinking, these surefire engines are about $2000 with a 3 year warranty, the v6 i have isn't guaranteed for anything except that it's been sitting for 15 years, and it would cost me $2000 to rebuild my old pontiac engine myself.

does anyone have experience with these surefire engines? i'm thinking of going with the 6.6 400 pontiac if i buy one.

i've heard fairly good things about gas mileage from the 400, i have a quadrajet and an edelbrock performer intake, the car only has a 2.73 rear end, and i was thinking about rebuilding a 700r4 to put in. would 20mpg be in the realm of possibilities since these 400's are rebuilt stock?

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Old 05-28-2011, 02:57 PM
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Dont know about the engine from autozone, but a 400 with a 700r4 and a 2.73 ...sweet choice .
You would hate the V 6 I can garantee it, when some mustang pulls up next to you and you cant smoke the pony, youll hate it.
Gas mileage....youll have to keep your foot out of the carb, just takes discipline. I would think 18 would not be out of the question on the highway at 60-65 (with the 400 700r4 2.73 combo)
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:14 PM
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X2 on NOT putting the V6 in that car i really think you would regret it very soon after. JMO



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Old 05-28-2011, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latech
I would think 18 would not be out of the question on the highway at 60-65 (with the 400 700r4 2.73 combo)
Seriously? I would expect more than that with a Firebird at 70-75 mph.
When the converter locks up in 4th gear with 2:73's .
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Old 05-28-2011, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqzbox
Seriously? I would expect more than that with a Firebird at 70-75 mph.
When the converter locks up in 4th gear with 2:73's .
Could be. 18 would be easy to get I would think. Anything more would be a real kicker.
Keep in mind they only got about 21-22 with the V 6 and your talking about feeding a 400 so...
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recnepswilliams
would 20mpg be in the realm of possibilities since these 400's are rebuilt stock?
Get in out of the sun Spencer, you're beginning to hallucinate.
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Old 05-31-2011, 03:45 PM
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I wonder if there's a way that i could set up a makeshift dfco (deceleration fuel cut off) where when i'm coasting to a stop the fuel is prevented from entering the cylinders and the engine temporarily freewheels until it hits a certain rpm.

i heard that 700r4 transmissions have a lock up converter, so i could have the converter lock up and have some kind of a modified jet/metering rod that could be pushed down with a solenoid and seal completely until the gas pedal is brought off of the closed position.

i paid attention to how many times i let off the gas today driving my el camino and i do it a lot. i drive my dad's 2004 intrepid and you can feel the engine kick back on when you give it gas, there's a slight delay. i drove it one day putting it in neutral and coasting to a stop and i lost so much economy i could tell by where the gauge was and how many miles where on it that mileage was down.

has anyone ever heard of dfco retrofitted to an older car?
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:14 AM
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Yeah, GM came up with that "dfco" system in 1957. i will try to find you some links if/when i have time. Works well.


2) As far as the engine, please note that i AM NOT an engine person, but someone who is interested in engines and willing to learn. With that out of the way, i would personally go with Jasper if i needed a rebuilt/reman pontiac motor or other shops that specialize in pontiac crate engines which i can't provide a link right now due to lack of time. It's not that i don't trust "surefire" engines. Well, actually i don't trust "surefire engines." There, i said it.

Better yet, if you don't have to have a pontiac, then go chevy. Here you will have a myriad of good choices. Exhaust will have to be redone, which depending on how it goes, could be a hassle or could go quite easily.

i like v-6's. Which one do you have?
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:44 AM
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I would google surefire engines, some pretty bad reviews out there on them.
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:05 PM
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i'm not sure where to get a jasper engine, i heard you have to have it installed.

but i was thinking more about dfco and i was wondering... wouldn't it basically have the effect of dfco if you opened up the vacuum ports when the engine was decelerating? as in created a vacuum leak?

the engine would get air in through the vacuum ports easier than through the air breather, so wouldn't that almost completely stop fuel from being sprayed in?
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:09 PM
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Jaspers started out real strong years ago, then like many companies , they cheapened up there work and started losing there good name trying to eek out more profits. I would run a junkyard motor before I would by a reman from anyone.
Build the thing yourself , get a good machinist,dont trust some company you dont know.When things go wrong you know who to blame.Just do your homework so your build turns out right , not one with problems.
Don't Be Yotch up a perfectly good pontiac by dumping a chevy turd into it.
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:00 AM
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1) In that case, let's hold off on jasper. i was having my doubts actually. i suggested jasper because i just could not really think of another major rebuilder with a decent (or formally decent) reputation because i don't think goodwrench carries pontiac engines anymore with the possible exception of the 2.5 iron duke?

How much are you looking to spend? There are some smaller rebuilders who specialize in pontiac.


2) The system gm had was mechanical fuel injection and it had the "Dfco" which apparently worked quite well. Don't have time to provide a link right now.
The idea of opening up massive vacuum ports is interesting, but i don't think it will work---how are you going to close the idle passages? Try it though anyways.

But there are many possibilites, such as adapting the cylinder deactivation on LS engines, the rochester mechanicial system, or as you probably know most 81 and later carbs from gm had the metering rods controlled by computer---you could have them, with modification, completely shut fuel off based on vacuum demands and throttle position.

The possiblities are very exciting but will, of course, take time research and experimentation.

3) Back to the whole chevy thing. Just the fact that you were considering the v-6 makes me think you are not 100% having to stay with pontiac---because i don't think pontiac ever made a v-6? i'm ASSuming you have the buick 6?
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recnepswilliams
I found out that autozone can order crate engines for my 1977 firebird, i've still been juggling options with it, debating v6 vs v8, and i was thinking, these surefire engines are about $2000 with a 3 year warranty, the v6 i have isn't guaranteed for anything except that it's been sitting for 15 years, and it would cost me $2000 to rebuild my old pontiac engine myself.

does anyone have experience with these surefire engines? i'm thinking of going with the 6.6 400 pontiac if i buy one.

i've heard fairly good things about gas mileage from the 400, i have a quadrajet and an edelbrock performer intake, the car only has a 2.73 rear end, and i was thinking about rebuilding a 700r4 to put in. would 20mpg be in the realm of possibilities since these 400's are rebuilt stock?
Without EFI probably not this kind of mileage. The overdrive in the 700R4 against a 2.73 axle would just turn the engine to slowly for a crab that depends upon "signal" meaning adequate air flow across the boosters so they meter efficiently and evenly. The Q jet was made as an attempt to deal with this problem before the advent of EFI. The small primary venturies run the air flow velocity up high at low RPMs to improve the metering response. Even so it's hard to get consistency around and under 2000 RPMs. Carbs with larger venturies do even worse.

Still you'll find that good mileage off the dynamometer is more a function of the power the vehicle needs to move it than the size of the engine.

My injected 350 in an old S15 gets 18-22 depending on the time of year, this is almost the same as what the original 153 got over the same commute.

Bogie
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