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Old 10-07-2010, 06:18 PM
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Swaped out carb and got rid of spacer engine still has issues.

Well guys I just got done swapping out my holley 1850 ( which nothing is wrong with it just wanted to rule it out as having a problem) for a rebuilt one I got off of ebay.

It was not some really junk carb it was one gotten from national carburetors and I changed the base plate on it and a few other things but I put it on took my carburetor spacer off and started the truck up and let it warm up and after 8 months of checking everything from all electrical stuff to fuel delivery and everything else and had many posts on this forum to check this and that and my engine just does not want to run smooth with out a stupid sputtering here and there.

Also I noticed while looking over things for any fuel leaks that my pcv valve sounded like a dang rattle snake and I assume it is not supposed to do that. I have replaced it before and they did the same thing. I un hooked it and plugged my hose and it affect's my idle somewhat but it did not make it smooth out or anything and really does not change with it hooked up and without . I just don't know what else to check anymore and feel like giving up.

I have tried everything all you kind and knowledgeable guys have suggested from all areas. Any ides now? If not no biggy I don't know really what to do now.
Thanks again
Eric
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:37 PM
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Does it sputter cold or warm? Did you ever check your intake gasket for leaks (vacuum)?
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballerokid
Does it sputter cold or warm? Did you ever check your intake gasket for leaks (vacuum)?
Caballero, check out THIS thread for a run-down of the problem.
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:28 AM
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Did you check the plugs? I've looked down the list of all the things you checked and I can't find the results of pulling your plugs. That should have been done about 20 minutes into this project.
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Old 10-08-2010, 03:34 PM
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Yes I have had several sets of spark plugs in this thing since I have been trying to figure out what is causing my issues.

I have had acdelco, autolite, champion and ngk plugs in this thing and the ngk is the shortest plug I can get so I have clerance with my headers. All plugs look like they are firing when I have taken them out. A few cylinders run leaner then the others but nothing major to worry about. Intake gasket is not leaking as I just did a cam swap a month ago and it did it before and after even with a different intake.

I now have a smooth running cam as compared to the lopey idle cam I had before and you can really tell the issue. I hooked my vacuum gauge up today to fine adjust my idle mixture screws and I got good at 1.5 turns out which seems to be normal for my engine.

I had 18 inches at 750 rpm idle in park and the needle was not steady but moved a little fast but right at 18 inches and when the engine does its miss or sputter what ever you want to call it it will drop clear down to about 15 or so when it seems like just for a thousand of a second the engine will want to die but it never does or stall or hesitate or anything when you drive it or take off.

Warming up you can always hear to where sometimes all cylinders does not fire but skip here and there. I have had to many things that I have had on this thing for checking wise.
1. Two different carburetors and carb spacer taken off.
2. Three different distrubutors with different control modules and coils and caps all new.
3. several sets of new plug wires
4. two different intakes
5.checked all ground wires and electrical connections
6. Three different alternators but one did not charge right and the other the bearings where bad.
7. All vacuum hookups checked with propane and carb cleaner and all new hoses.
8. Timing checked and rechecked and TDC verified when doing cam swap.
9.New battery and all cable hookups. plus extra ground wires added.
10.Compression check on all cylinders and all read the same.
11.Volt meter and there is a good source of power at the distributor. 13.5 volts while running.
12. No fuel delivery issues or excessive pressure.
I and my Dad who has worked on cars and race cars and built many things over the years can not even figure it out.

I am so sick of this I can't stand it.
Eric
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Old 10-08-2010, 03:43 PM
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If you go to this website and click on scenario number three that is what my vacuum gauge looks like when it is at a steady 18 inches when the idle is smooth and before it starts its issue.
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/186.cfm

Like stated above it holds steady at 18 but the needle will shake a little but stays about there when all works right.
Eric
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Old 10-08-2010, 04:22 PM
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Hang in there there is a reason for everything no exceptions.

Man what are you doing with all those spare parts? you could have a swap meet dude.

You could have a valve timing issue, how did the new lifters fit in the bores when you changed the cam? or is it possible that you have some valves sticking or collapsed lifter, maybe concentrate on the valve train for a bit and check it over real well if you hav'nt allready done so.

2 more of my cents
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:00 PM
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Well I am sure that there is more than one of us watching this to see how it turns out . I've looked through all the posts on the last two threads on this and can't see anything missing that you've tried .
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:03 PM
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Well custom 10 I had the distributor that came with my truck and I had an older distributor I sold someone for parts but I kept the cap and rotor and control module cause they did not need that and I also had some issues with running longer plugs and I burnt some plug wires up last year and earlier this year till I found that ngk and champion plugs will clear my headers good.

I also went ahead and got a brand new distributor to go with my new cam since it had a melonized gear for it. I am the type who likes to have some spare parts for an as needed basis it seems lol. The lifters where all just fine when I checked everything when I did my cam swap and no problems there. Nothing looked out of normal for wear wise. I am running a roller cam too so no issues like you might have with a flat tappet cam.

I will have to maybe give some other things a look again just to double check but man I know timing wise there is no problems engine will run nice and strong when driving it.
Eric
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:20 AM
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long shot

You mentioned you are running a roller cam, the harder material of the cam stock will quickly chew up the cast iron gears from early distributors. This excessive end play condition can cause symptoms like you have described. I had it happen on a big-ol pontiac with a retro roller cam conversion.

Its worth taking a look at it. It seems you have tried everything else i can think of.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:28 PM
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Well I know its not a distributor gear wear issue cause it did it very first thing on startup and did it with my previous distributor and the gear on it was fine. Talking to some guys who build engines today they asked me what my timing was and they said I have too much timing at idle and off idle.

I currently have 16 mechanical at idle and with vacuum advance to full manifold about 28 to 30 and they said my smaller cam and setup that it does not need that much timing and I know the whole story of full manifold vs timed port and don't want to get in a argument there.

Was told to try and put initial timing at idle around 10-12 degrees at the most and put the vacuum advance on timed port and see how it does and if symptoms go away then that was the problem. Too much timing coming on to quick on too small of a cam. Also the mechanical advance springs I have are a medium stiffness so I know that is not too much of an issue there. I will try and see how it comes out tomorrow and will post my results.

How much timing is normal for a mild 260/270 212/218 @ 50 hydraulic roller cam need anyways? thanks guys for suggestions I do appreciate it.
Eric
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric32
Well I know its not a distributor gear wear issue cause it did it very first thing on startup and did it with my previous distributor and the gear on it was fine. Talking to some guys who build engines today they asked me what my timing was and they said I have too much timing at idle and off idle.

I currently have 16 mechanical at idle and with vacuum advance to full manifold about 28 to 30 and they said my smaller cam and setup that it does not need that much timing and I know the whole story of full manifold vs timed port and don't want to get in a argument there.

Was told to try and put initial timing at idle around 10-12 degrees at the most and put the vacuum advance on timed port and see how it does and if symptoms go away then that was the problem. Too much timing coming on to quick on too small of a cam. Also the mechanical advance springs I have are a medium stiffness so I know that is not too much of an issue there. I will try and see how it comes out tomorrow and will post my results.

How much timing is normal for a mild 260/270 212/218 @ 50 hydraulic roller cam need anyways? thanks guys for suggestions I do appreciate it.
Eric
Try the 10-12 degrees BTDC w/the vacuum advance on ported- just like they said. That will tell you what you want to know- if less initial timing helps or not.

I have overadvanced engines at idle just to see what they do, and I haven't had one do what you say, i.e. drop a cylinder periodically. But then, every combination is different.

Good luck.
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Old 10-09-2010, 07:14 PM
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Thanks cobalt I will have to try and see how it does. Was told too much timing at idle and with the opening and closing of the valves and with too much timing they said things like that can happen as they have seen it before. Will give it a try and see how it does.
I ran ported vacuum before on my previous cam and setup with no ill effects one way or the other but my initial timing was always 16 degrees though. I have yet to run it less. And from looking around many sources say for a mild cam performance cam like mine it states 10-12 degrees is pretty close.

I will now have to take my carburetor off and readjust my secondary's to allow more air to come in the carb so I can keep my primary throttle plates within spec.
thanks for help guys
Eric
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:20 PM
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Well guys I took some time today and tired different timing on my engine and it does not like anything initial wise less then 12 degrees.

When I went less then that it would run over 200 plus and it normally only runs 190 on really hot days even in idle. I put it about 14 to 15 degrees and it seems happy there.

I also put my carburetor spacer back on and let it just run with initial timing and ported vacuum and it still has the spit and sputter but today it seemed not as bad but it is also warmer out too. I will have to drive it a few days and see how it goes but it still did not run smooth in idle.

I hooked my vacuum gauge up and it went from about 16 inches at 15 degrees initial timing and once I retarded it to around 10 and put my idle back up it was on around 12 or less and needle was still not smooth.

The needle will stay around 15 but it flutters really fast at that setting. And just for fun my brother stopped by and he has a chevy 305 and its all stock with over 150,000 miles and it reads a nice and steady 18 inches at idle with ported and just to see I hooked his engine up to full manifold and it went to around 21 and the needle was nice and steady all the time.

Pretty bad my engine is brand new with less then 2,000 miles on it and his will idle and do better warming up then mine.

O well next thing I will have to check is the plugs wires and for resistance. Thanks guys for your help so basically I figures my timing was not an issues but I have ruled it out. Just don't know what its problem is. I really wish I could find out whats wrong with this thing.
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Old 10-10-2010, 04:55 PM
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Well eric I am hoping that you can eventually get this gremlin off your back but in the mean time could I humbly suggest that U tune it to the best possible degree and then have some fun with it, never mind this miss for a bit,,,

Take your brother and his car to a bit of open road and show him what yours will do just for kicks have some fun with it, don't stress it,,,keep the rubber side down man,
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