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-   -   switching to a 5 speed (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/switching-5-speed-222385.html)

sapsz28 07-31-2012 10:20 AM

switching to a 5 speed
 
I have a 1980 Z28 with a muncie M-21 in it know runs great no issues mechanically however 1st gear is a 2.20 ratio with a 3:42 rear end, Im thinking to go either with a Richmond 5 speed or tremec both can be set up to my liking gea wise within 2% I have 447 ft lbs at the wheels with my 406 so they can both handle the power even the mucie has so far.
Does any know through experiance which one might be easier to fit into my Z
any 2nd gen f body would do pontiac or chevrolet i dont mind having to adjust my drive shaft but I"d rather not touch the crossmeber in the end Ill do what it takes

AutoGear 07-31-2012 02:03 PM

Richmond is out of business and the parts for the Nash 5spd / ROD are hard to get these days, depending on who and where you are. The TKO is quickly becoming obsolete, and many parts have been discontinued. That leaves you with one of these Keisler LGT 5speeds. Apparently they arent shipping those yet..Im not in the loop on that stuff though.

How about a 4 gear solution for you; 2.98 1st gear in your Muncie and 3.08s in the back end. 9:1 total gear reduction, economy of the 3.08s; no shifter mounting woes, no swapping clutches or driveshafts and M22 strength.

If the 3.42 in 4th gear doesn't bug you; get an M22W gearset. M22 Rockcrusher strength with a 2.5x 1st gear. Its a help in 1st gear.

If you're really on a budget, you could change the input and cluster in your M21 to M20 units, get the same approx. ratio as the M22W without the strength increase.

sapsz28 08-01-2012 04:49 AM

sapsz28
 
That is a great solution thank you,i do have one dilema though,I know my rear end has a 3:42 I had it opened to put a girdle on it and the ring gear was stamped richmond 3:42 I also counte the teeth on the ring and pinion which are 39and 12 that works out to 3.419rounde off makes 3:42 I have a 26 tall tire 255/60/15 firstone firehawk,at 60 mph i rev 2900 rpm i'ne used 4 different tachometers,auto meter,autogage,sunpro and my stock gm unit,as weel my gps tracked me at 60 mph with the same rpm 2900,and I had a law enforcement friend clock me 4 times with my car doing 60 mph again at 2900 rpm, the tachs were all set for 8 cylinder and I've checked the wiring by myself and 2 different auto elecric shops.
when I run the 1/4 mile I go through the traps at redline 6500 rpm in 3rd I dont know how to explain it.
But getting back to your sugestion it didnt even cross my mind, thats brilliant thinking, I'going to research it and see what my gear ratio options are for the tranny and the 3:08's would be perfect,thank you so much for your input,would you happen to know of any muncie part suppliers. Thanks again

RWENUTS 08-01-2012 07:30 AM

Talk to these guys. They'll get your muncie set up.
Garage

AutoGear 08-01-2012 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapsz28 (Post 1579015)
But getting back to your sugestion it didnt even cross my mind, thats brilliant thinking, I'going to research it and see what my gear ratio options are for the tranny and the 3:08's would be perfect,thank you so much for your input,would you happen to know of any muncie part suppliers. Thanks again

I work for Auto Gear; we design, manufacture and sell a lot of the higher end Muncie parts out there. Where are you located? I have distributors all over the country (one of which is Garage Motorsports listed above); I also sell direct.

If you want to get into specific prices, please do that through PM.

The 2.98 1st gear M22Z gearset is 2.98/2.043/1.468/1.000

sapsz28 08-01-2012 11:02 PM

sapsZ28
 
heres my email I live in toronto and would be interested in talking with you gsapounakis@hotmail.com

vinniekq2 08-02-2012 02:36 AM

I put a TKO in my vette.2.78 first gear..82 5th gear.used the ford disc with chev pressure plate,changed yoke,moved cross member.fits good,they had a shifter that matched my car. a lot stronger than a muncie,but does not shift as fast as muncie.whats the MPH of your car?rpm of engine? a 2.98 first gear is good but the RPM drop between gears will be large

sapsz28 08-02-2012 08:41 AM

sapsZ28
 
In 4th @60mph with a 3:42 rear 2900 rpm 26inch tire my 1st gear ratio is 2.20-1

vinniekq2 08-02-2012 09:01 AM

I have 3.50 rear gears and with a 0.82 fifth gear my RPM is 2050 at 60 MPH.she likes to be at 65 mph in O/drive and purrs happily along.first gear goes about 50MPH at chipped redline.The only thing I dont like about the tko is the 2-3 shift.

sapsz28 08-03-2012 12:17 AM

sapsZ28
 
I want to be able to trap redline in the 1/4 with the 1st 4 gears and cruise around 2200rpm in 5th. With a 26 inch tall tire i have to figure my mph per gear ,for example if I have a 3:08 rear end with a 1-1 5th gear ratio from a richmond 5 speed I'll have my target rpm for HWY cruising,in the city 1st gear is a 3.27-1 ratio, so my final drive in 1st wil be approximately 10.082-1 ,I need to find a formula to give me the mph at 6200rpm with that ratio in 1st gear,,aside from their differences from an engineering standpoint the richmond and tremec have the same ratios from 1st to 4th gear,the richmond has a 1-1 5th the tremec a 0.64-1, so the differential ratio is the deciding factor depending on which unit I go with. OR scrap it all and build a Muncie M22Z.

Any thoughts has anyone taken the plunge and not be happy.

vinniekq2 08-03-2012 08:32 AM

DO NOT ,,,lol,build a muncie.cost too much.work backwards. what ets do you want to turn?at what rpm/horse power? eg: 7200 rpm with 5.13 gears and 29.5 tires(slicks) will give you 112-115 mph (slicks grow and convertors may slip) richmond has or had an online calculator for speed in gears. 26 inch tall tire is short for drag racing. 4.11 gears and over 6k rpm will give you more than 120 mph which translates into a 10 second car.tremec offers 2 o/drive ratios,I have the 0.82 fifth gear.That gear gives my car a theoretical top speed of 177 mph with 3.5 gears.At 60 mph in 5th Im at 2050 rpm with 27.5 ish tires

AutoGear 08-03-2012 01:52 PM

My advice is to talk to someone who has experience with BOTH gearboxes and get an unbiased opinion. I will also suggest you try to drive some cars with these in them, as the Richmond and TKO have some driveability quirks that some owners like and some dislike (Richmonds big heavy slow shifting gears and the TKO's 2-3 shift idiosyncrasies).

It sounds like you have your heart set on a 5spd. I can recommend some people who build these things for a living and can give you some insight. Im not trying to be a pitchman here for our product. I don't pay Jon to be here, and I don't mind if you go elsewhere (one of the benefits of not being commissioned).

Send me a private message (not a response in a thread) or an email and I'll give you some contact information for a couple guys. Theres a couple guys who are heavy into the Team Chevelle scene that can give you some insight (one owns a Richmond with extensive mods), I also have a friend in Canada who is intimately familiar with TKOs; along with 3 or 4 other guys who tend to specialize in T5s, T10s, Muncies and Toploaders. Heck if you want the best T56 builders in the country, I'm more than happy to see you get what you'll be happy with.

My response was trying to give you an answer that maximizes the number of factory parts and minimizes the impact on the wallet, while getting the job done.

vinniekq2 08-03-2012 03:35 PM

I use the TKO as mentioned and yes,it is slow shifting 2-3. Ive owned a lot of muncies over the years,mostly for the same car. They are the nicest shifting 4 speeds Ive driven. The t-10 is nice too. Buy a big basket for the parts if you put down any power. You can buy better cases and gears and make them work too. Add up the costs and see what fits the budget.If you seriously drag race,just buy a glide.


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