What exactly is snythetic oil? is it any better than regular oil?
Dont remove the drain plug, just the filter.skeeveman said:That is unless there is some magic way of taking the filter off withought getting a bath, lol.
GoneNova/406 said:there's no comparison.you can tell by the price.regular oil is changed at 3000 miles.synthetic is 15,000.you just change the filter at 3000 mile intervals.on hot rod t.v. i watched them dyno a car with regular oil,then drained the engine,trans and rear end and used synthetic in all and dynoed again and gained 8 h.p..you get all those benefits plas its so much better for your moving parts too.
If I remember correctly, isn't Mobil's 5000 and 7000 mile oil conventional oil?GoneNova/406 said:since this thread started i have been paying attention when in the parts store and the synthetics like mobil,lucas and amsoil have 5000,7500 and so on right on the lable so everyone can have it his or her way but there it is.when they all say the same thing maybe there is something to it.i'm sure they know more about oil than i do.
*************************************************johnsongrass1 said:I will post this copied with express written permission by the original author for public use.
Let me begin by saying that I am a T-1 Certified AMSOIL dealer. Although this reply may be long winded for some hopefully I can add some facts to the discussion regarding the use of diesel oil to break in a camshaft, the intended purpose of ZDP vs. zinc as an anti-wear agent and the similarities and differences between AMSOIL and Mobil 1.
First let me address the use of diesel oil as a break in oil on new flat tappet camshafts.
Diesel fuels tend to produce significantly higher levels of sulpher contaminate, water and soot during combustion. To combat this diesel oils typically have a more robust detergent/dispersant additive chemistry than oils intended for use in a gasoline engine. Also, as a general rule diesel oils do not contain friction modifiers. Because of this you may have seen some diesel oils recommended for use in motorcycle wet clutch applications.
In a gasoline engine undergoing a camshaft break in the additive chemistry of a diesel oil helps to produce some initial break in wear (lack of friction modifiers) on the cam and lifters while the high detergent/dispersant additives help suspend the wear metal being produced during break in until it can be captured by the oil filter.
ZDP and zinc
ZDP (zinc dithiophosphate) or ZDDP (zinc diaryl-dithio phosphate) are additives that supply anti wear protection, prevent rust and corrosion and inhibit the oxidation of rust itself.
While many motor oils may contain a high level of zinc this does not necessarily dictate improved wear performance for two reasons:
1) The mere presence of zinc does not mean it is in the form of ZDP. In other forms zinc offers additional oxidation protection but little wear control.
2) Other factor’s such as an oil’s viscometrics and base stock can have a significant effect on wear control.
AMSOIL vs. Mobil 1
While both AMSOIL and Mobil 1 are rightfully considered synthetic oils there are differences in the base stock composition. The base stocks of motor oils are generally broken into the five categories below:
Group 1 base oils are petroleum derived and the least refined of all of the groups. They are usually a mix of different hydrocarbon chains with little uniformity.
Group II base oils, again petroleum derived, are common in mineral based motor oils. They have a fair to good performance in the areas of volatility, oxidation stability, wear protection and flash/fire points. They have only fair performance in areas such as pour point and cold crank viscosity because they contain parrafin (wax) which at cold temperatures begins to thicken the oil to a point at which it will not flow.
Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of refining of all mineral oil derived stocks. Although not chemically engineered, they offer improved performance in a wide range of areas as well as good molecular uniformity and stability. By definition, they are considered a synthesized material and can be used in the production of synthetic and semi-synthetic base oils.
Group IV are polyalphaolefins (PAO) which are chemically engineered synthesized base stocks. PAO’s offer excellent stability, molecular uniformity, and hence improved performance.
Group V base oils, with few exceptions, are also chemically engineered stocks that do not fall into any of the categories previously mentioned.
Be aware that Synthetic Blends are combinations of Group II (petroleum oil) and Group III (highly refined petroleum oil) base oils. Because Group III base oils are considered Synthetics (even though they are refined petroleum oils) the addition of a Group III to a Group II oil can qualify the oil as a Synthetic Blend. Also be aware that there is no minimum required amount of Group III base oil to be labeled Synthetic Blend. These oils can contain as little as 2-3% of Group III base oils and still be labeled Synthetic Blends.
While AMSOIL is produced exclusively from Group IV base oils (PAO’s) Mobil 1 is produced from a combination of Group III and IV base oils. Both are legitimately referred to as Full Synthetic Motor Oils.
Group III base stocks outperform their conventional mineral (petroleum) oil counterparts in most all areas. However, they still suffer from purity and molecular uniformity drawbacks. Whereas the performance level of a given PAO synthetic is similar regardless of its manufacturer, performance of Group III stock can vary significantly between manufacturers.
AMSOIL’s Group IV PAO formulation will outperform Mobil 1’s formulation in the following areas. Although the test results below are comparing AMSOIL 10W-30 to Mobil 1 10W-30 I think they indicative of the results for the race formulations:
1) Superior Stability – The Group IV PAO’s have uniform molecular chains that are of the same size and weight unlike the Group III base oils that have some lighter fractions. Under high temperature conditions these lighter fractions will evaporate.
The NOACK Volatility Test determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.
In a May 2003 NOACK Volatility Test (ASTM D-5800) AMSOIL lost only 4.86% of its mass during the test while Mobil 1 Super Syn lost 8.92% of its mass.
2) Superior Oxidation Resisitance – The Superior Oxidation Stability of AMSOIL allows it to effectively resist the formations of engine deposits and sludge, keeping the engine running clean and efficient. It also resists thickening, maintaining its superior wear protection and lubricating properties and maximizing fuel efficiency.
In a May 2003 Thin-Film Oxidation test (ASTM D-4742) that measures the oxidation stability of lubricating oils AMSOIL 10W-30 had the highest induction time of all of the tested oils. In fact, AMSOIL did not reach its break point after 500 minutes of testing at which point the test was stopped. Mobil 1 Super Syn reached its break point at 397 minutes. Many other oils including synthetics reached their break point between 242-197 minutes.
3) Superior Wear Protection – AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants provide unsurpassed wear protection against engine wear. Equipment life is extended, and repairs, downtime and expenses are reduced.
The Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172) determines the wear protection of a lubricant. Three metal balls are clamped together and covered with test lubricant, while a rotating fourth ball is pressed against them in sliding contact. This typically produces a wear scar that is measured and recorded. The smaller the average wear scar, the better the protection provided by the lubricant. In the May 2003 test the AMSOIL Synthetic produced a wear scar of .40mm while the Mobil 1 Super Syn had a wear scar reading of .60mm.
With the improved stability, and oxidation resistance of AMSOIL you should also be able to get a significant increase in drain interval over the Mobil 1. In a racing environment the condition of the oil should be closely monitored via an oil analysis program and the examination of the interior of the oil filter. Although the cost of the Mobil 1 is less than the AMSOIL Series 2000 20W-50 Racing Oil ($4.50/quart Mobil 1 vs. $6.70/quart AMSOIL Preferred Customer) the extended drain, superior stability, superior oxidation resistance and the superior wear protection make it very cost competitive.
Best Regards,
J.P. Karpowicz
HiTechLubricants.com
T-1 Certified AMSOIL Dealer