t bird with a 2.3 can you swap to 5.0 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2005, 10:45 PM
Back n the Game,Fully Hydrated
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Beyond Thunderdome, BarterTown
Posts: 47
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
t bird with a 2.3 can you swap to 5.0

how hard would it be to put a 302 in a 88 T bird with a 2.3 turbo 5spd? i want to keep the 5 spd. the turbo 2.3 is roached (supposedly making 35 psi on one cylinder due to a bent rod). i happen to know someone with a good 302 in their garage. the tbird is $2200 and is pretty clean but runs terrible. i can put 2 and 2 together here and build myself a pretty cool hotrod.

    Advertisement

Last edited by Waksabi; 08-08-2005 at 11:19 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2005, 11:03 PM
66GMC's Avatar
Get in, sit down, hang on
 

Last journal entry: Cab Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Olds, Alberta Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 2,761
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 32
Thanked 90 Times in 85 Posts
Yup, sure can!

I love the hood scoops on the turbo car.

Those cars came with a 302 (5.0) so finding brackets and mounts, etc at the junkyard shouldn't be too tough.You know what might be even more fun? ... a 351C! (Same mounts and bell-housing as 302)

I doubt that the bellhousing from the 2.3 will mate to the 302/351 so you'll likely be shopping for one of those as well. The trans itself should be "beefy" enough for a stock 302, as the 2.3 turbo was what ... 200 HP? Is that 5-speed the same one used in Mustangs?

If you go with the Cleveland, perhaps a top-loader 4-speed or something like a Doug Nash would be the way to go.

Don
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2005, 07:16 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Shreveport LA
Age: 64
Posts: 5,103
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Some of the people at www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com have done this swap.

The 2.3 trans input shaft is not compatible with the V8.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2005, 07:24 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gadsden, AL
Posts: 12
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You can swap to a 5.0, but why? It will be easier and cheaper to yank a 2.3T motor from the junkyard and swap it in. You'll also get better mileage and go faster than you would with a stock 5.0. With a few cheap mods, it's not hard to put that turbocoupe in the 13's.

No, the 351C will not bolt in place of a 5.0, you're thinking of a 351W (the W stands for Windsor which is what engine family the 302 and 351W are in). The 302 will not bolt to the four cylinder tranny without adaptation, and it won't hold up to the torque anyway, due to its 4.03 first gear ratio and small input shaft.

If you insist on swapping in a V8, at least go with a 351W or 460. If you just want to get the car back on the road, swap a good 2.3T in it, and enjoy. It'll still be a cool hot rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2005, 11:35 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nev.
Posts: 70
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Do the 5.0 swap it's easy and all the parts are cheap!
You will be hard pressed to out perform a 5.0 with a 2.3T.
Have had lots of 5.0's and worked on tons of 2.3T's and although the 2.3 is different and some what cool the 5.0 is the best way to go.
Oh and better gas millage! My 5.0 in a 92 gt got 24-26 so I don't think you will do any better with a 2.3t.
Just my .02 worth.
Good luck however you decide to go.
Eddie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2005, 07:44 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: texas, earth
Posts: 420
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
5.0 swap....the aftermarket parts are readily available...and usually cheap, the 5.0 mustang guys are always changing, upgrading.......Ebay is a wonderful thing You can get decent gas milage out of the 302 as well...as long as you do not go too radical on the cam & remember, this is a toy..not an all out drag car
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2005, 07:48 AM
Back n the Game,Fully Hydrated
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Beyond Thunderdome, BarterTown
Posts: 47
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
see thats what i was affraid of. i was hoping it would work out. well 2k is a lot to pay anyways, for a not running 88. the car maybe be straight and rust free, but i cant sink all that money, for a headache. i have a feelin it would become more lawn art.

Last edited by Waksabi; 08-11-2005 at 07:54 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2005, 08:57 AM
66GMC's Avatar
Get in, sit down, hang on
 

Last journal entry: Cab Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Olds, Alberta Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 2,761
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 32
Thanked 90 Times in 85 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftless
No, the 351C will not bolt in place of a 5.0, you're thinking of a 351W (the W stands for Windsor which is what engine family the 302 and 351W are in).
Au contrere, mon frere! (On the contrary, my brother!)

The bellhousing pattern on the 351 Cleveland IS the same as 289/302 and the mounts work too. I know this to be true because I've done it myself twice. 66 Galaxie 289, and 68 Torino 302 were both replaced by 351C. The 351C sits a little bit forward (an inch or so) on the 302 mounts, so you have to slide the trans c/member forward as well. It didn't seem to be enough that you had to lengthen the driveshaft though.

The 351M/400 will not fit the 302 bellhousing, as they have a taller deck height.
(A 351M is a 400 block, with a 351W crank - if I recall) This bellhousing pattern might be the same as 429/460.

I'm not 100% sure where the 351W fits in. It has a taller deck height than the 302, and intake manifolds and firing order are different, too. I can't recall what the bellhousing pattern interchanges with.

352-360-390-428 FE engines all use another bellhousing pattern.

The bottom line is that Ford does not follow the usual "small-block/big-block" rules that GM and Chrysler do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2005, 09:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Siler City, NC
Age: 37
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The 4cyl T5 can be reused. You just have to use a certain pilot bushing for it. But I warn you, the 4cyl tranny has really big gears so shifts will be on top of ya. You never have to even use first gear with them. Also, it will be a crap shoot on longevity. The one I had in a 92 Mustang survived a year and several 7.8x, eigth mile, passes but then proceeded to completely shatter third gear.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2005, 10:48 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gadsden, AL
Posts: 12
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66GMC
Au contrere, mon frere! (On the contrary, my brother!)

The bellhousing pattern on the 351 Cleveland IS the same as 289/302 and the mounts work too. I know this to be true because I've done it myself twice. 66 Galaxie 289, and 68 Torino 302 were both replaced by 351C. The 351C sits a little bit forward (an inch or so) on the 302 mounts, so you have to slide the trans c/member forward as well. It didn't seem to be enough that you had to lengthen the driveshaft though.
I stand corrected! I have not messed with Clevelands much.

Quote:
The 351M/400 will not fit the 302 bellhousing, as they have a taller deck height.
(A 351M is a 400 block, with a 351W crank - if I recall) This bellhousing pattern might be the same as 429/460.
They took a 351C, raised the deck height, increased the main bearing size, increased the stroke, changed the bolt pattern to the big block 429/460 pattern, and called it a 400. Then later on they took this same motor and destroked it to 351ci, and called it a 351M. The 351M does not have a 351W crank, but it does have the same stroke.

Quote:
I'm not 100% sure where the 351W fits in. It has a taller deck height than the 302, and intake manifolds and firing order are different, too. I can't recall what the bellhousing pattern interchanges with.
The 351W is the 5.0's "big brother", in the same engine family. It has the same bellhousing and is exactly the same except for the differences you described, plus larger main bearings. Later on when Ford introduced the 5.0 HO, they changed its firing order to the same as the 351W.


Now, regarding gas mileage, a 2.3T in good tune gets 35-36 MPG, and can be tuned to run on 87 or 93 at the flick of a switch. Try that with a 5.0. The 2.3T can also be cheaply modified to perform really well while keeping good gas mileage and great driveability. It's also easier to work on, cheaper, and a damn good motor overall.

Yeah, the swap parts are cheap to go to a 5.0, but Jesus Christ, why go through all that trouble for no gain? Just swap a good 2.3T in the Turbocoupe, it's not hard. Then find an old Fox body to put a 5.0 in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2005, 11:45 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: texas, earth
Posts: 420
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The bottom line is that Ford does not follow the usual "small-block/big-block" rules that GM and Chrysler do.[/QUOTE]
why no...that would take away from all of the fun of it
Now, regarding gas mileage, a 2.3T in good tune gets 35-36 MPG, and can be tuned to run on 87 or 93 at the flick of a switch. Try that with a 5.0. The 2.3T can also be cheaply modified to perform really well while keeping good gas mileage and great driveability. It's also easier to work on, cheaper, and a damn good motor overall.
35-36 mpg in WHAT????a shopping cart
my 2.3 gets 31 in a 91 coupe....synthetic oil, K&N filter, don't drive like a maniac....i just cant inmagine that kind of mileage in anything other that about a 1500 lb car
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2005, 09:41 PM
daimon1054's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 496
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I had a TC and it was OK but turbo lag was horrible, in the wet is was next to un-drivable and mods just made it worse. For every day drive-ability go with the 5.0. It still gets in the 20's for MPG and will run in the 13's with very few mods. I do think the TC hood and front end was the best looking of all the birds. The T-5 was never made with the V-8 so that might take some modding if you go that way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2005, 01:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Siler City, NC
Age: 37
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by daimon1054
The T-5 was never made with the V-8 so that might take some modding if you go that way.
Say huh?? Do you mean the "T5" tranny or did you mean to say the "thunderbird"?? Either way, both had 302s connected to them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2005, 01:33 PM
daimon1054's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 496
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Sorry the T5 was in the mustang with the 5.0 but the T-bird was never offered with a 5 speed V8 in that body style. The T5 was in the TC but I don't know if it will fit without mods behind the V8?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2005, 09:13 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Siler City, NC
Age: 37
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by daimon1054
Sorry the T5 was in the mustang with the 5.0 but the T-bird was never offered with a 5 speed V8 in that body style. The T5 was in the TC but I don't know if it will fit without mods behind the V8?
Oh, I understand what you are saying now, and you are right. The only thing it takes to get that 4cyl T5 behind the 302 is a certain pilot bearing. It can be purchased from the local Auto Parts store but I cannot remember the part number. I would have to dig that up or remember how I came about it the first time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
5.0 t bird engine magnum2u Engine 12 09-17-2004 05:19 PM
5.0 Swap 88cobra Engine 3 08-05-2004 08:37 AM
2.8 swap to a 5.0 D M N Engine 4 10-11-2003 02:56 PM
91 5.0 EFI Swap Joe S Engine 6 09-15-2002 10:53 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.