I'm looking for info on selecting a rear end for a tbucket that I'm building from a book I purchased about building a tbucket for under $3000 dollars. This is the first time I've built a rod. I've been collecting parts for a few years and decided to build this as project to keep me busy during the winter. I'm using a 283 from a 66 Chevy pick up and a turbo 350 tranny. Some mentioned a Ford Explorer rear but someone also told me that I would have to cut down the axle because one side is longer than the other. Unfortunately I don't have much experience with rear end specs. I would like to use disc brakes in the rear as well. I'm just looking for an economical way to complete the drive train for this project. Any help would be appreciated.
The explorer 8.8" pumpkin is offset, but it won't effect anything if you build it with that in mind.. If you really want to center it, just get another short side axle from a different Explorer rear and then narrow it that amount. But I think you will find, it's workable as is.. Street value on a Explorer 8.8" is about $150, that's what a reasonable yard will charge for a bare one without brakes. You can probably go to a U pull it and grab one for $50-75 complete.. The 1995-2001 Explorer rear gets you rear disc brakes, many times a functional limited slip unit and 3.73 or 4.11 gears. You would have to go to a 1994 or older and drum brakes to get 3.23 ( IIRC ) gears if you didn't want them as steep.
On a budget build like that I would use the Explorer axle as is. Yes there will be some pinion offset but we can work around that. When you go to the pick-a-part place to get the axle be sure and get the e-brake cables and the wheels and tires. I would need the hub to hub dimension of the rear end so I could order a front axle of the correct width to match what the rear end dimension is.
The Explorer is offset about 3" from center. On a tbucket your driveshaft will be very short. Mine is only 12", but I have a 700R4 trans. Depending on which T350 you have, your trans may be shorter, but there a few different length tailshafts for the T350 and yours may be one of the longer ones.
What all this means is that your driveshaft angle will be very severe with the Explorer rear unless you shorten it up and move the pinion closer to center.
A common inexpensive rear for a T is an S10 Chevy. Yes they're just a 7.5" rear, but it would hold up fine with your 283. They put similar rears under Z28's that weigh a lot more than your T and had stout 350 engines. The main downside to the S10 is that the brakes are small and the wheel cylinders are tiny. I would recommend changing over to discs if you go that route. T's carry a lot of weight on the rear and need good brakes out back. My car carries almost 60% of it's weight on the rear and stopped much shorter when I got the rear brakes working properly. I kept the drums, but had to go to a very small master cylinder to boost the line pressure to the rear brakes. discs would have been much easier to get working.
The Explorer rear is also very heavy compared to the S10. T's generally ride pretty rough, adding an extra hundred pounds to the rearend isn't going to help that at all.
Although the 9" ford is very popular & has tons of aftermarket support , the 8" is a very good choice as well . IF you can find a maverick , cougar , mustang from the 60's or a granada or monarch from the 70's , those are good , narrow rears ... AFA disc brakes , you really don't need them ..
dave
AFA $3 K . yea , 30 years ago , maybe
A '94 to '98 Mustang GT 8.8 would work. It has disc brakes, 5 lug axles, Traction Lock and the pinion is close to center. A 283 with a TH350 isn't going to be hard on a rear end, so a S10 rear end would also work. The later S10 rear ends had disc brakes and 28 spline axles.
Chesters book is great,of course it was written 25 years ago,so prices may be a little different today. I used a 9" rear from a 67 Bronco in my T-bucket.It is offset some,but it doesnt cause any problems.I replaced the brakes with 11"x2 drums from a Ford pickup. I used a speedway adjustable proportioning valve,I initially set it about in the middle,the car stopped OK,but had quite a hard pedal.I adjusted the valve 1 full turn,and Man what a difference,she will stop on a dime now.
Total Performance used Maverick/Comet standard 8" Ford rear end for their entire T bucket run of well over 2000 chassis that they built - including mine which backed up a well warmed over 351W Ford with absolutely no problem. It too is slightly offset (but not 3"). My driveshaft was a 'whopping' 9" long, centerline to centerline of the U joint yokes. I drove the car about 7000 miles before it went down the road for a new build. In that time I changed U joints twice, not because they were bad but because I couldn't set the engine and rear end at the 'accepted' 3*down/3*up. Ratios from auto trans Mavericks/Comets are generally 2.79 or 3.00. I found a differential (pumpkin) in a Pinto wagon that to me was perfect - 3.40 with fairly short tires. Granada's which are way too wide, often have 3.25 with auto trans, 3.50 and 3.55 for their standard transmission cars with the highest at 3.91 and found in Mustangs. Disc brakes - nice, but really not a necessity in a car that will weigh less then 2000 pounds though Speedway will sell you an inexpensive kit to use with the proven GM metric calipers or you can use a 9" small axle pattern Wilwood kit and figure out the necessary adapters for the 8".
Whatever is available is usually the best choice for a light fairly low horsepowered car though availability and reasonableness costs of parts can limit common use. Stick with the Fords and parts can be found at any NAPA. GMs are also fairly easy but not quite so much. Then the ease of the Ford drop out center is really nice if you 'blow' a rear end and that spare is just sitting on the shelf waiting its turn while the GMs - not quite so easy
hopefully it's a short tail... even with the short your driveshaft is around 18". if it's a long tail trade it off or get the tail end from a shortie. i used an 8" rear from a '67 mustang and fit perfect. with 20" wide rear tires too..
how old is that "build a bucket for 3k" book ???? keep your receipts and love to see it.. i'm sure someone has done it..BUT u'd NEVER get me in it.. unsafe comes to mind.
My 2 cents here. The 8.8 axle out of the explorer has 3 1/4" axle tubes. If you buy brackets that attach to the axle tubes be ready to modify some of the brackets to fit the larger tubes.
I am running a 1991 Explorer 8.8 3.73 LS This is in my 27 Tcoupe. I am running a parallel 4 link with panhard bar and coil overs. I was lucky my brackets needed very little work to make them fit on the larger tubes. I think the offset is about 2" but you really got to look at it to see the offset pinion. I haven't installed the engine and transmission yet but it looks like I will have a decent distance between the trans and rear.
Use whatever rear you can get for cheap. A 8.8 is a great rear. So is a 9" and even a 10 bolt can be a great rear. It all comes down to the realistic torque you plan on putting into it.
As far as pinion offset goes. That is easily fixed by offsetting the engine so the tailshaft is inline with the pinion. Then lower the engine so the pinion is dead on vertically. You should end up with around 5 inches of ground clearence under the pan and a very small driveshaft that will not vibrate.
Use a engine plate or bolt in engine mounts and if you decide to dump money into upgrades later the engine can be moved easily.
Get the wheels moving. Planning for things you may or may not do is the number 1 killer of builds.
There is a lot of T bucket info here on hotrodders http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/The_FREE_T_Bucket_plans
The last 2 T bucket builds I used CCR plans, You can now down load them. O
n one we used a jaguar rear end. the other used a lincoln 9 3/8 Disc rear. I copied the CCR plans then laminated clear shelf paper and used the optical tracer plasma at the college. some of the parts came out a little off. I don't know if the copy machine distorted them or it was the originals If I build another chassis I will draft my own prints for the plasma.
IMO if you are building a T-bucket a big part of the visual is the rear axle, you'll want the differential centered on the car.... any offset just won't look as good.
And rear disc brakes... yeah that's cool, but definitely not needed in such a lightweight car.
For my '27 RPU I used a 9 inch Ford out of a Ranchero and had it shortened.
Has anyone looked at the Toyota pickup rear axles from the 80s and 90s? Offroad and sport truck guys routinely put SBC's in toyotas and they never seem to beef up the axles. They're narrow and better looking than an S10 rear
I do agree that discs are not needed. Large drums will work just fine, unless you use an S10 rear. The S10 drums are hard to make work right due to very small bore wheel cylinders (3/4" diameter). Discs on an S10 rear will be much more effective than the stock drums. The largest wheel cylinders that I'm aware of that will fit the S10 brakes are mid-90's Chevy minivan parts and they are only 7/8" bore. I custom modified cylinders for my T and they are only 15/16" bore. I had to go to a 3/4" bore master cylinder to get them to work properly.
As far as offsetting the engine goes, I really don't see how you could push the engine 3" off center in a T and make it look good. The cowl of a T is very narrow and anything but centered is going to stick out like a sore thumb. Besides, the typical T frame is so narrow, I doubt you could offset it that far. Since the OP asked about the Explorer rear, you're going to have to deal with that 3" offset.
Also, with a 3" pinion offset and a centered engine, assuming an 18" driveshaft, you will wind up with around a 9.5 degree u-joint angle. That's not going to live for very long and probably vibrate like crazy.
As far as offsetting the engine goes, I really don't see how you could push the engine 3" off center in a T and make it look good. The cowl of a T is very narrow and anything but centered is going to stick out like a sore thumb. Besides, the typical T frame is so narrow, I doubt you could offset it that far. Since the OP asked about the Explorer rear, you're going to have to deal with that 3" offset.
The looks all depend on how you do your exhaust and steering. Having the engine offset in a tight frame really helps in a typical steering setup. If the OP was going to go with headers outside the frame rails that opens up a huge amount of room to shimmy the engine around.
If they want a more traditional closed hood, outside steering, skinny tires with go cart brakes look. A banjo rear from a truck can be had for the cost of a 8.8 if your willing to get your paws dirty and respect the limitations. A Banjo can be upgraded of course for not a huge amount(within limits) you just need to talk to the right people.
That all being said My first post was about really getting the wheels moving. I found a offset that had been centered 8.8 with moser axles, new calipers and it even had a aluminum girdle. It was used in a street/strip nova and the guy was going bigger. I stole it for $400. They are out there if your looking in the mean time get the wheels moving. Then you can upgrade the thing as deals come along.
No one has mentioned Dana so I will.
A centered diff Dana 44 can be found easily at most junk yards. They can also be upgraded heavily. I would not kick out the idea of the dana 35 either. A considerable amount of jeep guys build these up before going bigger. If your in the position at the right time you can get your hands on a "built" one for the cost of a junk yard axle. Look for part outs or buying the entire pile and junking what you don't want/can't sell may get you one for free.
LOL
I know but lots of people put TKOs in their cars, and they're mexican
Personally, it wouldn't bother me, if it fit my budget, looked good and was beefy enough. I live in the northeast, and its very hard to find a Ford 8", short Ford 9" and a lot of the Explorers, Rangers and S10s were crushed under "cash for clunkers".
8" Ford is a common one that is used. There are still parts available and a pretty good variety of ratios
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