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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:16 AM
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t p i problems

hey guys,
bought my bucket list car recently[34 ford kit car].it has a 1986 trans am 305.my problem is when you first start it,it runs rough,stalls,and smells of raw gas.once warmed up it is fine.i checked the ecm numbers and they are not the correct ones[16198262]should have1227165.it has three plugs and the 1227165 has two.this car was professionaly built.ervery thing top of the line.cant understand why they would inslall this ecm.this is driving me nuts.please help.any sugestions appreciated.

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Old 12-28-2012, 05:55 PM
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The ECM that you have in the car is or could be correct. The '165' ecm that you think you should have can be updated to a '730'. The '730' is superceded by the ecm that you have in the car now. Are you familiar with memcals and proms and do you know what your current ecm has in it for both? If you are not familiar with them, then try the chevythunder or thirdgen websites.

FYI, I'm no expert on this. I've been doing alot of reading about TPI setups as I'm currently installing one onto a GEN I in a 77 Pontiac. And, I have to admit that after doing all of the reading I could handle I decided to buy a Megasquirt II and build my own harness. Basically, I'm confident that a Megasquirt is cheaper than having my memcal sent out to be programmed multiple times before the programming is dialed in for a more than stock engine.

Does your engine have a 9th (cold start) injector (an 86 should)? Do you have a map sensor or maf sensor (86 should have a maf)?

Now, from what I've read, the 1227165 was originally used on map only engines but an 86 was a maf engine. Bear in mind - ORIGINALLY! Like a mentioned earlier these ecm can be used in different applications with different memcal's/prom's if the person setting it up know what they are doing.

Lastly, from what you said and if your engine has operated properly in past, then I don't think your ecm is the issue. Sounds like it is time for some datalogging or 'basic' diagnostics.

Again, CHECKOUT the thirdgen website, they have entire section on TPI issues.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:42 AM
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t p i problems

appreciate your input.it is maf,but I don't see a 9th cold start injector.where would that be located?again.thanks for your help.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:51 AM
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:41 PM
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There will also be two coolant temp sensors right next to each other on the front passenger side of the lower intake (below the throttle body). One of those sensors is for the cold start (9th) injector. When the coolant is below a certain temp, then the 9th injector adds additional fuel until the engine warms.

Again, has the engine had this issue since you have had it or has this just began occurring?

Also, how much vacuum do you have - the tpi system is notorious for intake leaks due to alot of gaskets (3 on throttle body, lower intake, and both ends of the both runners and the egr valve)? Do you still have the egr valve on the intake? If yes, is it still setup to operate? FYI, if it still on and the operation has been deleted in the ecm, then it could still be leaking, and oh yeah, it's a pain to remove.

Good lucik
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:17 PM
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:50 AM
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t p i problems

only had the car a few months,but always had problem.i think they must have made this computer work with maf.once warm,it runs fine.no vacume leaks.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:48 PM
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Have you looked at a live data stream from dead cold start to warmed up just to check the sensor values?
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:48 PM
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You never answered if you have a cold start(9th) injector, if yes, then hookup a noid to the plug to see if it is operating during cold start up. Also, you mentioned originally that you could smell gas when it stalls and/or runs poorly during cold startup, I would say this is being caused by one of two things or a combination of the two - too rich or an intake leak. Check IAC operation, verify the cold start injector is working properly(if it has one) and verify vacuum.

You mentioned no vacuum leaks - what is the vacuum gauge reading?

What is your O2 sensor reading (I assume you have the original narrowband). This is relativley easy to check with a multimeter.

After thinking about this for a second, IF this has the 9th inj and the non 9th inj ECM, then the engine is being richened by both the ECM via the other 8 injectors AND the cold start injector. FYI, the cold start injector works independently of the ecm's that it originally came with. Basically, it worked solely based on a power wire and the coolant temp sensor for itself.

If you are not sure if you have it, then attach a pic or two of your engine. If you are sure you have it, then unplug the injector and see if you problem goes away.

X2 on the datalogging LATech recommends

Pretty curious and good luck - Jim

Last edited by 64nailhead; 12-30-2012 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Forgot something
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:08 AM
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t p i problems

it has the 9th injector .the car is in storage now,but I have acess to it .I should have had all this checked be for purchasing it but drove 6 hours with a flat bed to pick up,and thought I could figure this problem out,but have no experience with tuned port ,and havnt found a mechanic that really knows about it,so your input is very helpful and I really appreciate it.will check the cold start to see if it is working.thanks again
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:16 PM
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Dont worry about getting a mechanic , sounds like Nailhead has sharpened his teeth on the TPI. Better stick around here and Iron things out.
God knows what the heck some Jamoke- mek - can- neck might do to it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chphlds View Post
I should have had all this checked be for purchasing it but drove 6 hours with a flat bed to pick up
Be careful, that sounds like something my wife would say to me lol. AS far as I'm concerned, anyone can buy a turn key hot rod and talk all day about it and never really say anything. I'm pretty new to this forum as a member, but I've been reading different posts for more than 5 years for technical advice on my projects. And after reading many threads and posts I believe that just about everyone on this site is dedicated to helping the people like you and me. And personally, I like learning and doing more than buying and bragging.............and that's how I respond to me wife when I she makes a comment referencing that I'm not an expert on everything.

The fun of it is making it, fixing it and learning something at the same time.

To the car, the most basic check you can do is to just unplug the 9th injector and start the engine. I'm going to bet that your problem is gone, but I'm not a real successful gambler.

If you do get to running and driving it, maybe check the cold, hot and cruising speed vacuum. I know that here, upstate NY, we are done driving for the season - salt, salt brine and liquid calcium suck!

Keep us posted.

Last edited by 64nailhead; 01-01-2013 at 05:01 AM. Reason: oops
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:38 AM
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t p i problems

proably wont be taking it out again until spring,but will keep trying your sugestions.being in northern mass,the weather is similar to yours so once that first salt goes down,the toys go in storage.thanks again for info
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:56 PM
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t p i problems

went up to check the 9th injector to see if it was functioning,and guess what?its not pluged in.no plug coming from harness either.now im really confused.any ideas on wiring the 9th injector?it has two male prongs.will the computer recognize it,once hooked up?starts rite up,but runs rough and smells of raw fuel until warmed up.really appreciate your help.retiring in the spring and just want to turn the key and go.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:36 PM
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look at the maf and burn off relays theres a updated ones that control the mass air flow sensor
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