[bigdog7373]

Originally Posted by hcompton

TPI blows

Originally Posted by hcompton

tpi was bad arse

Lol, you ok dude?

[hcompton]

Originally Posted by bigdog7373

Lol, you ok dude?

I said in 1990 when it came out it was cool but now you can get multi point that is great for less than the cost of a full rebuild of the tpi system.

I am ok. i know for a fact tpi is junk. Sorry. a quick search will show that many ppl on this forum run carb over rebuilding a dying tpi system. If it works great but how long does that last.

TPI was not designed to last for 30 years of service. I would also not recommend running a system from the 80's or early 90's from ford or anyone else.

Make tpi right it takes a few things for a performance car. Not what the op is looking for but maybe this can shed some light on why i will not run one.

$200 New wiring harness.

$400 New injectors

$ 5000 New manifolds larger than factory. Yes this is for power edelbrock used to make some but they dropped the entire line a few years back.

$ 200 (price has dropped on these) New throttle body

$ 100 plus the maf New Sensors

$ 100 at least a hundred froma junk yard or more. MAF and plumbing from a newer car.

$ 100 plus the tuning time about 80 and hour. New ecu from a newer car with custom tune usally only a dyno tune will do.

Now you add all that stuff up and you have your self a money pit. that will still need a strong motor stuck under it. Its still over a grand just to get the parts to correct normal wear. then you need hop up parts as well and all those prices were on the cheap side.

I know alot about these systems and have tunred the page and not going back. But would be willing to help get it going if more info is provided.

[chphlds]

hey guys,
thanks to your last posts,i finally realized that i am not running maf.now things are starting to make more sense.i then would have to be running map.correct?sorry if i sound like a moron,but this is my first experiance with tuned port.i posted a few more pics.to see if you guys can see anything else.the only things that i see unpluged are the knock sensor,which i will hook up befor driving,and the other plug next to it.you can also see a few wires cut to the ecm. any input appreciated.

[Soul_Hunter]

hcompton, there is nothing wrong with TPI, it was a great setup for its time & it still works perfectly fine for a lot of people now, myself included.
a better TPI intake for high horse power/high RPM is NOT anywhere near $5000.00.
no need for a throttle body if you get the right TPI intake.
replacement injector are NOT $400.00 for a full set.
NO system will last for 30 years without repairs, carb or FI.
newer vehicles have many more wiring problems than the older vehicles did at the same time or mileage, and those problems will only increase as the late model vehicles get older.
repairing or replacing a wiring harness isn't a big deal if you know what your doing.


chphlds, i did a quick read thru of your other threads and i'll be repeating some things.

the painless wiring harnesses are pretty good quality, at least everyone i've seen has been.
from the ECM number, your system is a MAP system.
using the MAP TPI system is very popular for swaps into hotrods as it allows for a much cleaner install vs the MAF systems.
the cold start valve, or 9th injector is not needed with MAP.

with a painless harness, you should have the ALDL connector & SES light, find the connector & the light. the light is probably just an orange light mounted next to the ALDL.
if the knock sensor is not programed out of the ECM chip, the ECM will have a code for it & the CEL will be on all the time and the motor will have reduced performance.
the light should come on at key on. if the light works, jumper the ALDL terminals A&B & turn the key to the on postion. the light should flash out any codes. with no problems it should flash code 12. if there are problems, the code 12 will be followed any other stored codes.
its not unusual for the knock sensor to be programed out for an install like you have.
a call to painless wiring may turn up some good info about things such as what the base timing should be & how to check it.

with it running fine once warmed up, it sounds to me like it is going into closed loop & the ECM is controlling fuel.
what is the fuel pressure with it running at idle?
i can't tell from the pictures, but being an aftermarket install you may have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

a data log from the ECM could go a long way.
if you have a laptop, you can build or buy the ALDL cable, download the software & do some data logging. TunerPro is a great little program for data logging. using TunerPro with a laptop you get a much longer data log & the update rate is faster than what any of the scanners do.

something i see in one of the pics and don't like, what do you have for a crankcase breather filter? please tell us it does not have a second PCV valve on the other valve cover.

are you on the thirdgen site?
not taking anything away from Hotrodders, but thirdgen truly is the premiere site for TPI systems.

[LATECH]

Well.....in picture # 1 I see a map sensor, or is it the barometric sensor?
If it is a baro it shouldnt have a vacuum hose hooked to it.
I dont recall if these used a baro or not. The sensors are both different, even though they appear similar.
You may need both, and you could have the one in the photo plugged in to the wrong spot, or have the wrong sensor.
Picture 2 +3 I see a purple and yellow wire clipped and not connected. IIRC that pair is for the coolant temp sensor
Picture 4...question......the 3 wires...black/white, green,orange....were they clipped from The ECM connector? Or ?
Picture # 5 ...those rusty bolts with the Torx drive in the intake...need to be replaced with some allen drive anodized bolts (stricly for appearance ) LOL. Good photo session.Pictures really help.

[64nailhead]

Originally Posted by hcompton

I said in 1990 when it came out it was cool but now you can get multi point that is great for less than the cost of a full rebuild of the tpi system.

I am ok. i know for a fact tpi is junk. Sorry. a quick search will show that many ppl on this forum run carb over rebuilding a dying tpi system. If it works great but how long does that last.

TPI was not designed to last for 30 years of service. I would also not recommend running a system from the 80's or early 90's from ford or anyone else.

Make tpi right it takes a few things for a performance car. Not what the op is looking for but maybe this can shed some light on why i will not run one.

$200 New wiring harness.

$400 New injectors

$ 5000 New manifolds larger than factory. Yes this is for power edelbrock used to make some but they dropped the entire line a few years back.

$ 200 (price has dropped on these) New throttle body

$ 100 plus the maf New Sensors

$ 100 at least a hundred froma junk yard or more. MAF and plumbing from a newer car.

$ 100 plus the tuning time about 80 and hour. New ecu from a newer car with custom tune usally only a dyno tune will do.

Now you add all that stuff up and you have your self a money pit. that will still need a strong motor stuck under it. Its still over a grand just to get the parts to correct normal wear. then you need hop up parts as well and all those prices were on the cheap side.

I know alot about these systems and have tunred the page and not going back. But would be willing to help get it going if more info is provided.

I always try to be constructive on forums and respectful of other people's views and preferences. Also, I am usually one the guys that needs more advice than I give.
But with that being said, hcompton,

YOU ARE ALL WET!
Your pricing estimates are not even remotely accurate unless you are doing none of the work yourself and you buy the highest priced parts you can find. I believe that almost everyone on this forum is some form of DIY'er and I haven't noticed too many 'money is no object' types either.

FYI -
new wiring harness - built my own for less than $55
new injectors - $160 (SouthBay Fuel Injection)
new throttle body - why? Stock 48 mm flows more than 650 cfm which is plenty for cruisin' and tire burnin'
used manifold,runners, rails, plenum, ecm(s), distributor, sensors - $200 (ebay)
new MAF sensor - threw it in the garbage - Megasquirt doesn't need it
tuning - FREE - Megasquirt

I'll let you know my dyno numbers when I'm done and also what they were with the 650 Holley and then I'll let you know the mileage difference also.

If your comments aren't constructive and helpful, then they are destructive.


I'm done

[bigdog7373]

Is your coolant temp sensor hooked up and working? It's not a tpi but my audi would run all funky when cold so i changed the temp sensors and it was a whole new car.

[Soul_Hunter]

LATECH, it should be a MAP sensor.
it serves as both MAP & BARO.
at key on the ECM stores the reading for BARO & then updates under WOT.
normally its mounted on the intake near the fuel pressure port.
probably moved inside for a cleaner install.
im not a fan of having it mounted low like that and with the port on the top side, over time fuel fumes can settle in it & condense.

the connectors in pic 2 & 3, the double wire connector i believe to be 1 of 2 for the AIR injection. the cut wires may be for the other AIR injection connector. or they could be for the EGR system, not completely uncommon for it to be tuned out of the chip also.
i don't believe its for coolant because he said it runs fine once warmed up.

i agree, its a HOTROD!, do something with those bolts.


64nailhead, the Megasquirt is impressive. you going with the MS2 or 3, or will MS1 be enough for you?

[64nailhead]

Soul Hunter,

MSII with 3.57 PCB. Also using the relay board. Assembled units for both. It was my 1st MS install and I was a little scared of soldering the boards. The next one I'll build myself. I have to admit that using the assembled units is pretty close to plug and play other than the harness routing.

I can't wait to get it on the dyno - SPRING IS ALMOST HERE, as it's snowing outside

Back to the OP. CP said in an earlier thread that the 9th injector was plugged into the harness. It should not be with a MAP system. But I couldn't tell if the second coolant sensor, that controls the 9th injector, is installed. Can anyone see it in the pics?

[Drewnashty]

Originally Posted by hcompton

TPI blows it does not flow enough air in stock form and the aftermarket solutions are very costly once you get everything purchased and installed. USally wiring harness, upper lower and throttle body need to be replaced along with injectors and computer just to hit 300 hp. then the troubles really start costing money.

Junk the TPI install carb and intake drive car for next 20 years without problems.

Wow, seriously? The stock ECM is more than capable of handling decent power and a Holley StealhRam will fix that airflow issue and can be had for the same price you'd pay for a new carb, and won't gunk up and need to be rebuilt every so often like a carb will. With various fittings to hook up the MAP sensor, brake booster, fuel lines and a standard SBC water neck and hose to fit, it's a pretty easy swap and a retune is basic stuff for an experienced TPI tuner especially on a stock motor.

chphlds, with patience you can get this working like a happy camper. Between here and thirdgen's TPI forum there's a lot of knowledgeable and helpful folks. If you want someone to talk to over the phone while you are in looking at the project you might try calling Tempe Speed and Performance and ask for Leighton. He can be very helpful and may even know of a shop local to you, that is if he has recovered from his back surgery yet. I haven't been over to their new shop since they moved several months back ... But Leighton used to work for Arizona TPI before they closed doors and while working there was technical support for Painless and he can talk forEVER.

[chphlds]

installing a new coolant sesor today.will see if that helps my problem.thanks

[chphlds]

thanks for the info.every little bit helps.

[LATECH]

I think its safe to say that Soul Hunter Nailhead and Myself REALLY want to see YOU fix this thing.
If you learn your setup well you will never need a "mechanic" to look at it for you.
If you can find an older OBD 1 scanner for a reasonable price that would be helpful in the future, but not totally necessary.
Drewnashty is kickin down too.
Keep us posted, We wanna see a smile on your face .

[LATECH]

Moved to the Modern Engine Electronics area due to the nature of the information posted here.

[chphlds]

Originally Posted by LATECH

I think its safe to say that Soul Hunter Nailhead and Myself REALLY want to see YOU fix this thing.
If you learn your setup well you will never need a "mechanic" to look at it for you.
If you can find an older OBD 1 scanner for a reasonable price that would be helpful in the future, but not totally necessary.
Drewnashty is kickin down too.
Keep us posted, We wanna see a smile on your face .

thanks guys.appreciate all your help.i have learned a lot from your posts.now that the weather is starting to break , I am getting antsy to get her back out on the road once again,but waiting for the salt to subside.will keep you informed.