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Old 04-29-2010, 07:48 AM
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Terminology

I think i ought to apologise for this thread before i start.

I am in the UK and eager to get started on my first project and have absolutely no experience whatsoever of this art. But i am determined that i will learn it...and learn it well.

However the main area i am struggling with between reading the posts here and also the Ron Mangus book is the terminology of certain tools, products etc; it seems that what you call something in the US can mean something completely different here in the UK

My first question of what i am sure will be many is what exactly is the product you call 'chipboard'. Here it is quite a thick piece of wood made of compressed woodchip. From the pics i have seen your version looks very similar to a thin plywood sheet or could it even be corrugated cardboard??.

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Old 04-29-2010, 08:38 AM
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chipboard..

YES,our chipboard is the same as yours,that term is not used here too much though, it is NOT waterproof (in most cases) usually if it gets wet,it swells up,and eventually falls apart.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:51 AM
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To further muddy the waters, another name used mostly in the home construction industry for the same material is OSB or Oriented Strand Board. It comes in different thicknesses and is used for a variety of things such as roof sheeting and subfloors.

That said, Chipboard/OSB should not be confused with particle board. A lot of inexpensive furniture (cabinets, shelving units etc.) are made of this material. Its a pressed material pretty much composed of sawdust and an adhesive. Automotive stereo installers like to make this the base construction material for custom speaker enclosures which are then covered in fabric and fiberglassed.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
To further muddy the waters, another name used mostly in the home construction industry for the same material is OSB or Oriented Strand Board. It comes in different thicknesses and is used for a variety of things such as roof sheeting and subfloors.

That said, Chipboard/OSB should not be confused with particle board. A lot of inexpensive furniture (cabinets, shelving units etc.) are made of this material. Its a pressed material pretty much composed of sawdust and an adhesive. Automotive stereo installers like to make this the base construction material for custom speaker enclosures which are then covered in fabric and fiberglassed.
And i presume that particle board is what we would call MDF (medium density fibreboard)...jeez why is stuff so complicated just because theres a small bit of watre between us
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:46 AM
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Chipboard is not OSB, or any other wood product. It is a thin piece of cardboard like the back of a writing tablet. It is not corrugated. The pictures show the chipboard Mangus talks about. I personally do not like using it in a car interior with the possibility of it warping, delaminating, or getting wet. There are far better products to use now days. I only use it to make patterns. I buy it online in 38" by 26" sheets from a company called U-Line. I buy it .030 thick.

If you find the Mangus book confusing, don't feel alone. I have been doing this over 35 years and I think his book is disjointed and hard to follow. Also, they never seem to finish anything all the way from beginning to end, nor do they tell you what contact adhesive they use or how it is applied. I think this is probably the result of over-eager editors.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
Chipboard is not OSB, or any other wood product. It is a thin piece of cardboard like the back of a writing tablet. It is not corrugated. The pictures show the chipboard Mangus talks about. I personally do not like using it in a car interior with the possibility of it warping, delaminating, or getting wet. There are far better products to use now days. I only use it to make patterns. I buy it online in 38" by 26" sheets from a company called U-Line. I buy it .030 thick.

If you find the Mangus book confusing, don't feel alone. I have been doing this over 35 years and I think his book is disjointed and hard to follow. Also, they never seem to finish anything all the way from beginning to end, nor do they tell you what contact adhesive they use or how it is applied. I think this is probably the result of over-eager editors.
Thanks...that does make it alot clearer for me....i am trying to read and learn as much as possible on the subject before i even attampt a project.....i am not new to the auto industry as started as a mechanic and am now a detailer but need a new challenge thats also fun and i will enjoy...i have already started buying some extra tools for the job but as yoiu say..glue is a bit of a minefield and very hard to locate here unless its aerosol...i have a spray gun for it and die grinders for shaping foam etc
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
Chipboard is not OSB, or any other wood product. It is a thin piece of cardboard like the back of a writing tablet. It is not corrugated.
Dan, to me chip board has to contain chips in it or its inappropriately named. The stuff you're calling chip board sounds an awful lot like Masonite to me..... but I'll yield to you pros on this one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal-K
And i presume that particle board is what we would call MDF (medium density fibreboard)...jeez why is stuff so complicated just because theres a small bit of watre between us.
We call it MDF too.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:01 PM
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The O.P. asked about the thin "chipboard" Ron Mangus was talking about in his book on car interiors. If you saw the book, you'd understand. The word chipboard Mangus used was his, not mine. I just call it (non corrugated) cardboard. He is not talking about MDF or OSB or Masonite, or any other building supplies or wood products. He is talking about cardboard like you'd find on the back of a tablet of paper. I used to buy it from a local printing company who used it for that reason only. I stopped buying it from them when the stuff got too expensive and I had to buy it from a cheaper source. Like I said before, it is a paper product and I won't use it for a car interior because there are much better products to use now days.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:42 PM
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Your right. Had I read the book I probably would have known what this material was. As a complete interior rookie, I'm interested to know what it was used for. Was it used for door panels and package shelves or just as a filler or support material? There is no doubt there are much better materials to use now days, but I'm wondering why someone would use something that vulnerable to moisture for a custom interior.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:56 PM
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I've never read that book, but are they using it for actual panels???

We keep a bunch of it around the shop. It makes for great, cheap pattern material that isn't too floppy. Just grab a sheet and start guessing and cutting, if the pattern is a bit off, throw it away and start over, or glue pieces on top of it. I should snap a picture of some of our chipboard patterns. Chunks cut out, pieces glued on, scribbles all over them...but it is a cheap and quick way to make a pattern for an odd shaped panel.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:26 AM
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That's exactly what I use it for and my patterns look the same way. Trim a little here add a little there.............. Masking tape and cardboard. It's thick enough to trace around and thin enough to cut easily with a scissors. You can see some of my patterns in this thread at post #4: CLICK HERE

No, they don't use it for panels, it's way too thin. They use it to fill in curved areas by gluing it in place. They also use it to make patterns for door panels etc. I think it has limited places in a car interior because it can absorb moisture, warp, delaminate, and fail completely. I have used it as a base for some pleats glued to waterboard door panels (the customer's choice) in this threadCLICK HERE but the door panels were completely covered with closed cell foam and Ultraleather and on a straight, flat, vertical surface I thought there would be no problem. I also don't think Masonite is a good choice for interior panels for the same reason, but that's just my opinion.

Shawn: I'm testing a new glue out starting next month that is water based. It doesn't have any of the fume issues that contact adhesive has, and it is being widely used successfully in the furniture and aircraft industry. It will glue together foam and act just like contact adhesive in high temp applications, according to the manufacturer. It costs the same as DAP Top and Trim adhesive. I'll take pictures and let you know how it works.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:48 AM
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MDF & HDP

Nope. MDF is NOT particle board or the stuff cabinets and speaker enclosures are made of. Two different things.

MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) is a dark brown material that is mill-able, paintable, and fairly soft. You can easily drive a finish nail through 3/4" MDF. I have never seen MDF used in any automotive application. It is not structural; you cannot use it to make a shelf or a cabinet side or front. It is very bendable in longer lengths. If you know what "Masonite" looks like, that is tempered (hardened) MDF. Similar color, just hardened for a harder finish. Regular MDF is way softer than Masonite.

High Density Particle Board is tan colored, very hard, and very heavy. It is used in making cabinets, counter-tops, and speaker enclosures. You cannot drive a finish nail through High Density Particle board easily if at all. This product is usually covered in laminate of some sort or used to make cabinet components that are finished with a thermo foil. The white cabinets and vanities you see in the home stores are usually made of this material. Generally, this material is not considered paintable. Get a cheap white or fake wood-grain shelf from your local home-store, cut it in half, and you will see what High Density Particle board looks like.
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:09 AM
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MDF does not have to be dark brown, and neither does Masonite. There are many different kinds of Masonite and MDF. MDF is very strong and is used in casegood furniture construction under veneer. The difference between MDF and Masonite is that MDF is made from compressed wood fibers, and Masonite is made from compressing a slurry of steamed wood fibers and sawdust. Masonite can be made using a dry process or a wet process. MDF has adhesive in it to hold it together, and Masonite does not. They are not the same even if the Masonite is tempered. Tempered Masonite is made by adding oil to it which gives it the dark brown color. It is not any "harder" than regular Masonite. It makes it less susceptible to water damage, but it is still not waterproof.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBill
Nope. MDF is NOT particle board or the stuff cabinets and speaker enclosures are made of. Two different things.

MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) is a dark brown material that is mill-able, paintable, and fairly soft. You can easily drive a finish nail through 3/4" MDF. I have never seen MDF used in any automotive application. It is not structural; you cannot use it to make a shelf or a cabinet side or front. It is very bendable in longer lengths. If you know what "Masonite" looks like, that is tempered (hardened) MDF. Similar color, just hardened for a harder finish. Regular MDF is way softer than Masonite.

High Density Particle Board is tan colored, very hard, and very heavy. It is used in making cabinets, counter-tops, and speaker enclosures. You cannot drive a finish nail through High Density Particle board easily if at all. This product is usually covered in laminate of some sort or used to make cabinet components that are finished with a thermo foil. The white cabinets and vanities you see in the home stores are usually made of this material. Generally, this material is not considered paintable. Get a cheap white or fake wood-grain shelf from your local home-store, cut it in half, and you will see what High Density Particle board looks like.
Almost all MDF is not dark brown, it is tan in color and looks to most to be compressed sawdust. It is used to make cabinet doors, used for sides of cabinets, mouldings, etc. It has no grain and no pores as particle board will have. It can be detailed using a router, is smooth and easily paintable. Quite a bit of MDF is used in the custom car industry for making speaker enclosures, dash panels, consoles, etc. Look at some of the cabinets that are unfinished at the box stores. The sides may be a particle board but the doors and stiles will be made out of MDF.
Masonite is usually a dark brown and although a lot of people think it is compressed paper, it is not. Quite a bit of cheaper paneling is made from Masonite board. Back in the 70's a lot of bathroom remodeling consisted of using masonite paneling covered with a vinyl coating. There was also a class action lawsuit a few years back against the Masonite company for siding that was sold. After a period of time it would delaminate and start deteriorating and growing fungus or mushrooms out of it.
Particle board kind of resembles MDF but is way more porous and is made up of what looks to be larger particles of sawdust and fine wood chips. Cheaper furniture is made out of this. A lot of office furniture is also made out of Particle board. Particle board used to be called chipboard by many.
Also at one time quite a few people were using the term chipboard to designate OSB, as OSB was made using thin layers of wood chips that were oriented in different directions and glued. The terminology was wrong though. Today I think almost everyone uses the correct term of OSB for oriented strand board.

MDF



Particle board



High density fiberboard

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Old 05-08-2010, 11:58 AM
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While all of this is great information, the "chipboard" the original poster is referring to is the chipboard Ron Mangus recommends in his book on custom car interiors and has nothing to do with MDF, Masonite, particle board, OSB, HDF, or any other wood product or building product.

The chipboard in question is a paper product which is thin cardboard like the cardboard on the back of a tablet of paper. There are pictures of it in post #5. You can cut it with a scissors and bend it and curve it however you want.
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