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th350, no 1st gear!!

25K views 19 replies 11 participants last post by  mike 96 ws6 
#1 ·
im new to this page but im trying to figure out a problem that iv been having. i have a 78 camaro 350/350. the trans. was rebuilt a little over a year ago (less then 8000mi) i took out to track ran a few laps and after that i slowly lost 1st gear. my engine is a big low end tourqe machine. but it has always shifted a little hard but nothing to worrie me. at the begining 1st would shift late same with 2nd. now (2weeks later) i have no 1st gear unless shifted out of N,P or R. it wont down shift at a stop. but now 2nd is shifting fine again just no 1st except for initial shift. please give me as many pointers as possible and hopfully this trans is still good. thanks alot....
 
#2 · (Edited)
Should-a gone with a 200-4R :thumbup:

On a more serious note, unless you build up a TH350 to take the abuse, TH350s in stock form are very weak. Alot of people will disagree, but it's true, they just can't take the abuse and start slipping after awhile. There and more than enough pages out there that tell you the weak points for the TH350s and how to fix or get around them.

I also know of three different versions of the TH350s, 1: some that came behind v-6's were missing a few clutch plates among other parts to save money, 2: A normal TH350 that went with most 305s and 350s from the factory, 3: the TH350C, the lock-up version of the 350. Which one do you have? I am also no expect on the TH350, far from it. I have never had any luck with the 350 trans in endurance, or reliability.

This also needs to go in the transmission section.
 
#5 ·
sway said:
200- 4r is for a 6 cly engine .
Nah!!! They came behind a few V-8's in their day.
Olds 350 Diesel, Olds 307, Chevy 305, Maybe even the Pontiac 301- too.

If the TH-350 was so weak, why was it put behind so many different engines in so many different cars and trucks, and for so many years.

And the 2004R lasted what, 6 years? And replaced with what? 700R4.

I've beat the snot out of quite a few TH-350's, and never had a problem with them. The black stepside in my gallery has a TH-350 that has been in 4 trucks now, and the reasons I am not driving it now, this truck has:

1. Blew an oil cooler line and spit 9 quarts of 10W30 on the road, rod bearing now has a little too much clearance.
2. A three foot jump onto pavement made a weak point in the passenger side frame rail a serious problem waiting to happen.
3. Another stunt involving too much air and a lot too much hooked to a chain while using it as a log skidder made a not-so-nice loud BOOM when the passenger side rear main leaf spring seperated halves and the rear half poked it's head out the floor of the bed.

The last truck it was in before this one had a frame that didn't like loaded as much as I asked it to be.

The truck before that one had an engine that begged to be put in my car.

The truck before that one had lasted too many miles without even basic maintenance, I rebuilt the engine in that one at 103,000, and the transmission a couple months later (this was back in 1989).

So I don't believe a TH-350 is "weak" because a couple members out of 20,000 have had a problem with it.
 
#6 ·
== your post confuses me.

1st gear is not a shift. When the shifter is in drive or manual 1st gear at a complete stop, the tranny should be in first gear.

Your post says that 1st would shift late or no 1st except for the initial shift.... I do not understand what you mean.



judis951 said:
im new to this page but im trying to figure out a problem that iv been having. i have a 78 camaro 350/350. the trans. was rebuilt a little over a year ago (less then 8000mi) i took out to track ran a few laps and after that i slowly lost 1st gear. my engine is a big low end tourqe machine. but it has always shifted a little hard but nothing to worrie me. at the begining 1st would shift late same with 2nd. now (2weeks later) i have no 1st gear unless shifted out of N,P or R. it wont down shift at a stop. but now 2nd is shifting fine again just no 1st except for initial shift. please give me as many pointers as possible and hopfully this trans is still good. thanks alot....
 
#7 ·
No first gear could be as simple as the shifter linkage adjustment or linkage bent, or a mal-adjusted TV cable at the engine end. Possible low fluid level?

After that, I'd have to turn to the pros. I can't remember if 1st gear is driven by a clutch pack or the bands. Either way it is internal.

If you still want to run a TH350 I'd recommend one from someone like the folks at this address http://www.phoenixtransmissions.com/
About $800 and you are in business for up to 500hp. You could also move up to the 700R4 or the 2004R at the same address or at http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/index.shtml
I just replaced my TH350 with a 700R4 from Bowtieoverdrives.com and am very happy with it. The TH350 was not giving me problems, I just wanted the overdrive and the lockup converter. Got the 4-speeds and a lower first gear to boot. The 2004R will hold up fine if it is one of the aftermarket performance models, but it is a bit wider than the 700R4 or TH350 so you'd have to check your side clearances on the frame. The 2004R has closer gear ratios than the 700R4 which has quite a drop in ratios between 2nd and 3rd gear, and is quite noticeable in performance considerations.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Chev283 said:
No first gear could be as simple as the shifter linkage adjustment or linkage bent, or a mal-adjusted TV cable at the engine end. Possible low fluid level?

After that, I'd have to turn to the pros. I can't remember if 1st gear is driven by a clutch pack or the bands. Either way it is internal.

If you still want to run a TH350 I'd recommend one from someone like the folks at this address http://www.phoenixtransmissions.com/
About $800 and you are in business for up to 500hp. You could also move up to the 700R4 or the 2004R at the same address or at http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/index.shtml
I just replaced my TH350 with a 700R4 from Bowtieoverdrives.com and am very happy with it. The TH350 was not giving me problems, I just wanted the overdrive and the lockup converter. Got the 4-speeds and a lower first gear to boot. The 2004R will hold up fine if it is one of the aftermarket performance models, but it is a bit wider than the 700R4 or TH350 so you'd have to check your side clearances on the frame. The 2004R has closer gear ratios than the 700R4 which has quite a drop in ratios between 2nd and 3rd gear, and is quite noticeable in performance considerations.

Turbo 350 don't use a tv cable and yes all forward gears are driven by clutch packs

87442lover said:
Should-a gone with a 200-4R :thumbup:

On a more serious note, unless you build up a TH350 to take the abuse, TH350s in stock form are very weak. Alot of people will disagree, but it's true, they just can't take the abuse and start slipping after awhile. There and more than enough pages out there that tell you the weak points for the TH350s and how to fix or get around them.

I also know of three different versions of the TH350s, 1: some that came behind v-6's were missing a few clutch plates among other parts to save money, 2: A normal TH350 that went with most 305s and 350s from the factory, 3: the TH350C, the lock-up version of the 350. Which one do you have? I am also no expect on the TH350, far from it. I have never had any luck with the 350 trans in endurance, or reliability.

This also needs to go in the transmission section.
Olds442lover you constant critisism of the th350 only show your lack of knowlege in this area. First of all the th350 has been used sucessfully in drag racing for a long long time a tribute to its design. The stock 200c and 200r4 that you are so found of need modifications to take the power that a stock 350 can. The only reason the 200c was used was because of its lower wieght
and was cheaper to build. If it hadn't been for this the turbo 350 would have been used instead as it was far more reliable. As for the 200r4 although I think it is a good choice for an o/d tranny in some situations it is far more expensive to build than a th350 and does require some modifications as it has some very weak area's such as the input shaft, and front planatary hub to name a few.
 
#9 ·
Hmmm. I just pulled a TH350 out of my '34 Ford and also pulled the TV cable and bracket that it was connected to on the intake. I originally pulled this same TH350 out of a '70 Monte Carlo along with the TV cable that came with it.

Don't want to argue, but mine has and needed a TV cable. If there are different TH350's that are made differently, I don't know about them.
 
#10 ·
Chev283 said:
Hmmm. I just pulled a TH350 out of my '34 Ford and also pulled the TV cable and bracket that it was connected to on the intake. I originally pulled this same TH350 out of a '70 Monte Carlo along with the TV cable that came with it.

Don't want to argue, but mine has and needed a TV cable. If there are different TH350's that are made differently, I don't know about them.
The cable on a 350 isn't a tv cable its a kick down cable
 
#12 ·
OK, I checked my GM manuals and the cable is a "downshift" cable rather than a "TV" cable. However, it controls the position of the detent valve in the transmission which in turn is part of the downshift mechanism for 3-1, 2-1, or 3-2 downshifts via throttle pressure. The cable has to be adjusted properly for the downshifts to take place.
Maybe the cable on "judis" camaro has come loose or is not adjusted properly.

According to the GM manual for a '76 Chev pickup, the cable needs to be installed so that the locking tabs at the intake end of the cable engage the bracket completely. Here is a direct quote from the GM manual on how to adjust this cable after it is installed properly on the bracket:
"With snap-lock disengaged, position carburetor to wide open throttle (W.O.T) position and then push the snap-lock downward until the top is flush with the rest of the cable." Pretty simple to give it a shot. If somebody has a picture of the snap-lock they are talking about it may help out a little. I have the cable, but no picture.

I'm trying to save "judis" some money here by trying the free and somewhat easy stuff first. Since the transmission was recently rebuilt and not really abused as far as I can tell, something has changed and it could possibly be the downshift cable adjustment.
 
#13 ·
Call it a TV cable or detent cable or kick down cable... it has nothing to do with the t-350 having NO first gear.

If the cable was stuck , pulled or broken in the full pull position the tranny would respond with a long first gear and late shifts.

If the cable is unhooked the tranny would still have first gear.

The original post talks about late or no shifting to first. I do not know if he means the first shift that happens from a dead stop or the application of the forward clutch pack when he moves the shifter to "D" or manual 1st.

These are 2 different things. The first shift is to 2nd gear from first. The change from "P" to the "D" position is simply applying the forward clutch pack.

All forward gears and reverse are clutch packs , not bands as mentioned in other post
 
#14 · (Edited)
I agree with Crosley about more info, {accurate info} is needed.
Is your car starting off in 1st gear fine when shifted from P,N or D... but starts off in second gear after you stop at a traffic light unless you manually shift the lever to 1st gear?
Have you checked the springs on the governor weights?
 
#15 ·
mike 96 ws6 said:
I agree with Crosley about more info, {accurate info} is needed.
Is your car starting off in 1st gear fine when shifted from P,N or D... but starts off in second gear after you stop at a traffic light unless you manually shift the lever to 1st gear?
Have you checked the springs on the governor weights?

======== you have brought up a thread that is near 3 years old.

I would 'hope' the problem is fixed by now.

:cool:
 
#16 ·
Oops. Sorry about that. I forgot I found this thread with a search for "TH 350 2nd gear start".
I searched because I have a buddy who's TH 350 does not downshift to 1st gear when stopping. It starts off in 2nd unless he manually shifts it to 1st. Would this be a governor issue and if so, what's the best way to correct it.
If not, what would the problem be?
Thank's for your expertise once again. ;)
 
#17 ·
mike 96 ws6 said:
Oops. Sorry about that. I forgot I found this thread with a search for "TH 350 2nd gear start".
I searched because I have a buddy who's TH 350 does not downshift to 1st gear when stopping. It starts off in 2nd unless he manually shifts it to 1st. Would this be a governor issue and if so, what's the best way to correct it.
If not, what would the problem be?
Thank's for your expertise once again. ;)
First place I would look at is the governor.... take it out and clean / check it for operation.

Inner valve should move freely in the governor.

Plastic gear should be in good shape , not loose on the gov shaft.
 
#18 ·
judis951 said:
im new to this page but im trying to figure out a problem that iv been having. i have a 78 camaro 350/350. the trans. was rebuilt a little over a year ago (less then 8000mi) i took out to track ran a few laps and after that i slowly lost 1st gear. my engine is a big low end tourqe machine. but it has always shifted a little hard but nothing to worrie me. at the begining 1st would shift late same with 2nd. now (2weeks later) i have no 1st gear unless shifted out of N,P or R. it wont down shift at a stop. but now 2nd is shifting fine again just no 1st except for initial shift. please give me as many pointers as possible and hopfully this trans is still good. thanks alot....
sounds like the governor is bad i experienced the same problem once.
 
#19 ·
Crosley said:
First place I would look at is the governor.... take it out and clean / check it for operation.

Inner valve should move freely in the governor.

Plastic gear should be in good shape , not loose on the gov shaft.
Thanks Crosley!
I'll post the results I find in this thread for future info in case someone else searches for this topic ... even if this thread is old! LOL :)

BTW: I sold the trans am I built the 4l60e for, with your guidance. I keep in touch with the new owner often and he has had no transmission problems in 50k miles. Thanks again for your help on that project!!! ;)
 
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