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Old 11-20-2005, 10:59 PM
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Are there any nagatives to running solid roller in a street car?

Im considering a roller cam for my Nova. The Hyd retro rollers are very expensive. I can swing the $ for a solid roller. But I really don't know what to expect as far as problems go with a solid roller set up like noise and maintenance etc. Its just a street car 67 Nova, 388, Performer RPM heads,10.5:1 comp. Doesn't see alot of use. But it does get driven Id say less than 1500 miles a year and a few runs at the strip in the summer. Would you choose a solid roller over a flat tappet hydraulic cam for your street car? Any advice is appreciated!

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Old 11-21-2005, 01:34 AM
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I always use Hydraulic rollers. Solid rollers have to be re-adjusted periodically.
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Old 11-21-2005, 07:44 AM
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not sure why people always say that soilid rollers have to be adjusted all the time, if you have to adjust it all the time than there is something wrong or moving, myself and my brother run soild rollers on the street, his is a small block chevy with a .630 solid roller(runs 11.40's) and mine is a .620 small block ford, that run's 11.30's both of us drive to and from the track , usally make 3-5 runs each than drive home, we drive them to college , to the store , walmart, at least 2-3 days a week. i haven put 3000 miles on mine now and i have yet have to readjust the valves, i check them every 1000 miles but nothing has moved, but we both use rev kit;s, i use stud grildles and good locks, i use regular rollerockers and he went with some nice shaft rockers. another way to think about it is. look at nascar 20 yeras ago, they had the same stuff that we run now and they run 500 miles at 190mph @ 8500rpm and they dang sure dont stop and pit for valve adjustment..lol...you asked if its worth it , i say yes. but i really dont see much $$ differemce between a solid roller and a hydrlaic roller...a solid roller set up is around 1000.00, the cam is 250-300, rollers are 300.00 springs-keepers-locks are 300.00 seems like im forgeting something ,nut anyway. go solid roller and you will never go back
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Old 11-21-2005, 09:07 AM
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Most of your old engines used to be solid lifters I don't remember them being that much trouble! I used to readjust once every 6 months or so but then I was a teenager then so a lot of the things were worked on just for fun!
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Old 11-21-2005, 09:28 AM
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i agree that a solid lifter setup isnt "bad" for a street driven car

ya, they make extra noise , and require adjustment ever now and then, but adjustment doesnt take much more work then cleaning and re-installing plugs does

and considering you said the vehical wont see much use anyways, i wouldnt expect you to be put off by an extra hour of work during the summer

easiest way to do it is to add some extra "timing marks" to the harmonic balancer while building the engine, then draw yourself a little chart that shows which valvs are fully closed @ which mark

kinda like this

actual 0* drivers side, valves 1357 pass side valves 2458
90* drivers side .....
180* ect ect

that way you always know which rocker to go to next
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Old 11-21-2005, 09:56 AM
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I agree with 347 on this one. If you need to adjust them "all the time" then there's something wrong. My opinion on solid rollers is that it's ok to use them just be double sure that you have the correct spring pressure and that you check it at regular intervals. Valve float is what kills roller lifters.
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:26 AM
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Agree

I agree with engineczar. It is not a matter of them really REQUIRING adjustment on a regular basis, but the fact that all it take is a couple miles or few 1/4 passes with the incorrect valve lash (loose) or insufficient spring pressure to destroy the roller lifters. Also, MAKE SURE to get roller lifters with pressure pin oiling (either Crowers or Iskys) if you will have extended street time. Otherwise the needle bearings are lubricated exclusively by splash, and this is often insufficient for engines which spend a fair amount of time idling or @ low R's in traffic.

They just plain and simple make power, though, and the rev potential alone is worth it as long as the rest of the motor is up to par in terms of bottom end strength. Plus, I would have to say they are definitely more streetable for a given power level than a given hydraulic flat tappet.

I would definitely say if you are willing to deal with extra maintenence by all means go for it! And always make sure to run enough spring pressure!!!!

Cheers,
Andy
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:47 AM
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I run one on the street now....lunati 600/600 256/264 @.50 on a 106 lsa. It sees Minimal street time.. maybe 500 a year. I check my lifters/springs every year. This engine has been together for 4 years now and has had 3 sets of springs on it and 2 sets lifters. Its about to be on its 2nd set of roller rockers. I have run both crane's horizontal bar lifters and comp vertical bar lifters and have has no failures from either one.

I run PSI 1.46 diameter springs with 240lbs seat pressure and about 560 open.

Its does require more attention than a hydraulic cam but in my opinion the performance is well worth it.

As guys above have stated.... spring pressure is key to helping them live.


67 -- where in TN are you located?
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:52 AM
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http://popularhotrodding.com/enginem.../0511phr_cams/
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So what makes today's solid-roller cams better than yesterday's? Nolan Jamora, of Isky Cams comments, "Roller cams are really not much better today; it's the other valvetrain parts that have made the difference. The new technology in springs and roller lifters is the key. You have rollers like our Red Zone Lifters that oil right to the roller bearing to help their longevity, and also, the new springs designed for more endurance and longer life. So you no longer have the roller lifters bouncing on the cam when its been run for a long time on the freeway because the springs do a much better job or keeping lifters following the profile of the cam, which gives you better performance and longevity."

Back in the heyday of musclecar performance, if you wanted the most powerful engine on the dealer's lot you had to get it with a solid-tappet cam. That meant valve lash adjustments would be in order, which, at the time, no one seemed to mind. Today, no one wants to adjust their valves anymore, and we can't blame them, either. It's a hot, messy, tiresome, back-breaking process. Typically, valves will go out of adjustment for two reasons: either something's wearing in the valvetrain and is about to break, which creates more lash, or thermal expansion increases the lash when the engine's hot, which causes someone to think their valves are out of adjustment. This is normally the case. The truth is, if you've properly locked down the rocker arm's adjusting nut, they shouldn't move--ever. And as long as you're checking your valve lash with the engine at a consistent temperature every time, they should all be within spec. Remember, aluminum expands greater than steel. And with a lot of today's engines running aluminum heads, they're going to expand enough to add lash at the valves. It's ideal to set your lash cold, subtracting .002- to .004-inch for expansion every time you do it.
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Old 11-21-2005, 06:54 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. Im aware that using the matched springs is a must. Im going to have my machinist install them. When you say check valve lash I understand, but when you say check spring pressure I don't follow. Isn't that done when the springs are installed? Or is this something I need to do on a regular basis and how is it done? I was told by a friend that Doug Herbert makes good cams and lifters at a good price, the prices are lower than most, but is the quality up to par? Thanks guys Ed........................67 -- where in TN are you located? Johnson City TN
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Old 11-21-2005, 07:16 PM
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Solid Roller spring pressures are much higher than stock or even mechanical cam springs. Running a solid roller on the street WILL cause premature wear on the valvetrain. I would recommend a hydraulic roller for a street app. Just my opinion but the spring pressure is a fact.
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Old 11-22-2005, 01:04 PM
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If I may presume to paraphrase the gallery.

If you like to mess around with the engine a lot, have fun.

Personally I don't like adjustments and recurrent springs changes for the minimal hp difference (3-5 %). I'd rather stay a little more conservative cam wise with a hyd.

High pressure springs fatigue with use. They cause lots of valve train wear. Figure on new springs every 3-5000 miles. The more radical the cam the worse it is. Some break, usually at the most inopportune time.
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Old 11-22-2005, 01:40 PM
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3000 to 5000 is way low for spring life. We have done a lot of roller motors over the years and I have run motors on the street consistantly with solid rollers since 1993, so I think I can share some pretty accurate info on this subject. I'll make it brief.

Spring life is not an issue if you use a quality spring such as a Isky Tool Room spring. Even after 5 year of operation in my current motor they still checked right on for pressures, K-motion is another good spring. This is a 590 lb open pressure spring, 230 closed. Mileage was over 15,000 with lots of cruise time.

Lifters with pin oiling are recommended for street, or even race applications. Isky will indicate that 10,000 to 15,000 should be reasonable for their Red Zone lifters in an application such as mine which now runs 625 open spring pressure and .708 lift.

The killer that we see on solid rollers is improper lash adjustment resulting in the roller being beaten into submission. It is extremely important to adjust the lash hot. We suggest to heat the motor up to op temp, adjust one bank and then warm up the motor again then do the other side. Let the motor cool to ambient and the next day verify cold lash setting for future reference.

I have run rollers on the street with much less lift and spring pressures using standard Comp lifters with no reliability issues whatsoever.

Periodic lash inspection is important as that is your window into what is happening with the roller. If clearance can not be maintained you have a roller wheel going out.

It is a good idea to visually inspect the rollers either every year in an application such as mine or every other year. Sideplay on the wheel as well as rolling the wheel in your hand and feeling for roughness is what we look for.

A solid roller application is for the serious at heart. No other cam design will lift the valve as fast or as high nor have the RPM capability. They can perform much better through the mid and top RPM range than other designs.
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Old 11-22-2005, 01:52 PM
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Ricks the man.....
PSI springs are a very good spring as well.
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Old 11-22-2005, 06:05 PM
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" are there any negatives....?

of course, to every pro theres a con

J
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