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Time to Purchase new heads ( 400sbc High compression,.570/.590,tunnel ram E85 )

8K views 73 replies 9 participants last post by  BuzzLOL 
#1 ·
I decided to start another thread focusing on purchasing new heads, my other thread was all about compression and narrowing down what I truly had and I learned its much higher but with the opinion and facts brought to my attention I was able to speak to the right people and will be using E85 and simply run this motor, my current heads are small 185cc intake runners, they also need some work so I would rather invest into something new :thumbup:

My 63 nova will be 80% street 20% strip, its a gasser and will not be used in Road courses or speed runs just street/strip

So this is my full setup

404 SBC 4.145 bore
13:1 compression w/64cc heads 12.8:1 66cc -- 12.5:1 68cc -- 12.2:1 70cc
TRW pistons, Eagle Rods, Forged Crank, Internal balanced
Weiand Tunnel ram with 2 horsepower innovations 650 E85 carbs
4-speed M22 ( soon to be ordered )
4:11 rear with 28" tall tire
Car weighs around 2700lbs
Cam 296tls6 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-12-517-5

Any info you can provide would be great, and if I need to add more info just ask !!!

My few questions that come to mind would be purchasing an assembled head, lets just use Product " A " as the example. Product A has a max lift of .600 so would that automatically work with my cam that has a lift of .570/.580 ? Also the quality of valves in an assembled head ?

Or would it be wiser to purchase a bare head and drop it off by our Local head guy so he can order springs/retainters based off my cam for more of a exact spring lb. rate ?

Aluminum or Iron, knowing I'm using E85 would Aluminum be too cold with the burn rate.

Our local head guy Likes Iron heads as well aluminum, also speaks highly Dart and of Howards springs and overall head products. He has nothing on Aluminum just says its his preference is iron.

Thanks much !!!
 
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#9 ·
I would say that 1st gear is way too short, the only thing that sends up a red flag with the M-22 is the lack of an overdrive and this car will be driven 80% on the street. buzzing down the highway at 75-80mph is going to get real old real fast with those rear gears.

Too short of a 1st gear and you end up never using the damn thing, BTDT.
 
#8 ·
If buying the M-22 new, I'd suggest AutoGear for their M-22W wide ratio gearset, same ratio as the M-20 wide from GM but stronger.

Heads : Profiler 210, AFR 210, Brodix BP IK 210 (Iron Killer) or Track 1. Dart 215 will need porting to catch these.

The Jeg's house brand heads are done on Profiler castings also.

Look for flow numbers that go 275+ cfm @ .600" lift.

Howard's are good components, been around for 50+ years

If you have never heard of Profiler, they have been around for years, name used to be Ray Frank's Profiler Cylinder heads...built the biggest, baddest mountain motor pro stock and pulling tractor heads for 500" or bigger (800"+) Big Block Chevy's since the mid 1980's, decided it was time to get into small blocks and got Darin Morgan of Reher-Morrison and AFR fame to design him a clean sheet design...and its a good one based on all the reported dyno graphs respected engine builders have been posting on racer sites.

Aluminum will be fine with E85, don't know why your guy has a bias to iron heads, unless he mistakenly thinks E85 behaves like methanol. Iron would be fine if you don't mind the weight, just doesn't seem to be as many options as aluminum.

I don't think 850 carbs will help much, you don't have the large runner race style ram(Edelbrock Victor Ram or Pro Ram II, Holley Dominator Ram).

Buying as assembled head from a good manufacturer is fine, call and talk to them about springs, most can match what you need. Don't trust Summit or Jeg's tech men to give you correct answers...call the head company.

If an already assembled head has springs with very near the correct pressures and lift figures, then you will be fine...but look at seat and open pressures, not just lift. A .600" lift solid roller spring's pressure will kill a flat tappet cam in a very short time. If you want to buy bare and trust your local head guy, that's fine too

Cam you picked is a decent flat tappet. spring pressures of roughly 120-130lbs seat, 320-340 lbs open I believe....but verify this.

296tls6 is a pretty ratty grind in a street engine, even with 400". 1100-1200 rpm idle with a lot of chop. Howards has a nearly identical #112512-06, and you may want to look at Howards #112332-08, #112322-08, or #112532-06...a little less durations with nearly similar lifts...Howards $50 cheaper also, with equal or better quality....find them at Competition Products.

If you want to try a budget head, word on some real good porting sites is that the Assualt Racing head is pretty good, well made for an offshore casting, thick in all the right places with good seats and guides, just need a little clean up if you head man can do any decent porting......and they are not the ProComp casting as some idiots have posted around some web sites. There is a good thread with pics of a new one cut apart to check thicknesses at • Index page (Chad Speier Racing Heads) Only 200cc but good #'s for that size, I little porting makes them bigger and flow pretty good.
 
#13 ·
With the pro-filer heads I do have the choice of chamber cc, as we discused I know where I'm at with my current iron heads ( 64cc ) but we really didn't talk about if I were to have larger chamber heads what would the benefits be. I'm already in the talks with the main E85 guy for carbs so its E85 I'm doing.

13.1:1 with 64 as we discussed several times
12.17:1 with 70cc
11.89:1 with 72cc

Thoughts ?

I will be speaking with speierracingheads for purchase
 
#14 ·
I can't see any benefits to a larger chamber if you are going to use E-85....people area reporting running 14.5-15.0 to 1 on E-85 and not having problems. I've got one SBC 357 inch 13.3-1 in a friends car and it lives fine on E-85, he is very happy we discussed it and decided to make the switch.

Seems like going lower is just going to cost power and torque...unless the head porter needs the larger chamber to get the intake valve un-shrouded for more flow.

None of those possible compression ratio's will run on pump gas, so why stop short?
 
#15 ·
Sounds good to me, plus lets say I blow this motor up and swap the heads over to another motor, I would be better off in the future with 64cc heads.

14.5-15.0 on E85 is crazy isn't it, been reading a bunch :thumbup:

I have the next 2 weeks off of work, so I hope to get stuff ordered and will update as I go, any questions I'll post up.

You have given me solid information :thumbup:
 
#16 ·
You have plenty of cyl. head info to go by. In regards to your classic 4spd needs; go with a 2.56 1st gear and either 3.73s or 4.10s and you'll be great. Or; a little out of the box thinking would be some 3.55s and a 2.98 1st. I'd ask the guys here if they think your motor would be comfortable with the 3.55s though

2.98 1st/2.22 2nd/1.48 3rd would do nicely (similar to the T10CC)
 
#32 ·
Gary;

There is very little quality product on the T10 platform anymore. Richmond sold to Motive Gear (MidWest Truck). They tooled up for new gears over in Asia, but didn't address any of the shortcomings that the T10 has behind modern power. The rings are sketchy, the mainshaft isn't beefy enough anymore, the aluminum case could be revamped, the speedometer drive could be changed (or omitted completely and its space used as a torsional cushion to hold more power). The sliders still fit too loose on the hubs and both should be carbo nitrided to shift faster, last longer and keep "axial rock" at bay. They could add sealed bearings, a longer pilot on the input gear, an iron mainshaft bearing support (midplate). They were retooling, why not weed out all the high volume production compromises and build a better gearbox for 500 units a year?

I dunno which M22W gearset the OP is considering; there are 2 flavors. A 2.56 1st, which is our design and made in Italy (by Antonio Masiero or Euroricambi) and the 2.52 1st gear which is made in Asia. As long as the input bearing nut fits on the threads sufficiently to keep oil in the gearbox, I don't have a problem with the Asian stuff for a cruiser. For a bare-knuckled, street brawler, the Italian stuff takes a lot more abuse consistently and lasts a lot longer, but it is more money (Suggested retail is over 700, but you can find it cheaper) If anyone sees pricing they're curious about or claims they have questions about...please ask.

A complete Model 18, and its big brother the M23 have 3 or 4 factory 'Muncie' part numbers left (M'shaft reverse, Front Reverse idler, Reverse taper pin come to mind)
 
#33 · (Edited)
More questions...

I can't swap over my 11" centerforce flywheel due to being External balanced, so I have to shop for a new internally balanced.

So let talk Steel, Billet Steel or Aluminum.

Ram, HAYS and Centerforce

I know aluminum is lighter but will it tend to heat up to fast during street driving ?

Centerforce does not carry a billet steel, just plain steel ?

http://www.summitracing.com/search/...steel?SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Ascending
 
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