timing advanced!! is it needed - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:00 PM
spinn's Avatar
Booty Time, Across the USA
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,344
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
Please quote where I discuss boost relations with the timing curve.

I was speaking from personal experience. Thinking as the rpms continue, did I pull enough out. With shorter curves that became less of an issue for me. Then with the BTM it was problem solved.

I will not go to far or too fast with this. There is a communication issue.

I haven't discussed the operation of the btm. You cannot say I wrong in my theory yet!

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:21 PM
spinn's Avatar
Booty Time, Across the USA
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,344
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
I have made my comments as clear as possible.

a supercharged combination you need something to retard the timing, as rpm increases

before the comma should be agreeable.

After the comma is referencing to my experience.

Kind of a you want this, here is why.



You can disagree. You can say , your experience, that you liked the detonation and wanted it to continue through the pull. That would be your whole deal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:37 PM
33Willys77's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 402
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 7
Thanked 56 Times in 54 Posts
This discussion can/could make people question what do to... so

a supercharged combination you need something to retard the timing - yes I agree in most situations this is desired.

I see what Spinn is saying - RPMs increase - desire timing retard - when under a load - because there will be boost.
However: to clear it up, you should reference boost instead of RPM. If you have a timing curve set to reduce timing with RPM, it would be difficult to get a motor to run correctly. You can have boost starting early (for instance 2000 rpm) and so when do you start retarding the timing, and how much? If you reference boost with retard timing, so many degrees can be reduced per pound of boost. So, at 3500 RPM under load, you can have (for instance) 4-5 pounds of boost - pulling 2 degrees per pound or retard of 8-10 degrees. If going by RPM for retard timing, I could have low gears and driving 65 MPH down the highway at 3500 RPM - my timing would then be retarded. The motor would probably not like this.

As boost builds, retard the timing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:41 PM
spinn's Avatar
Booty Time, Across the USA
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,344
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
I know what it is.

You think it said, the BTM retards the timing as RPM rises!

Please re read it.

a supercharged combination you need something to retard the timing, as rpm increases

It says something entirely different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:51 PM
spinn's Avatar
Booty Time, Across the USA
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,344
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
I got away without retarding for boost. I kept the trans programmed like stock so the RPMS never past 4200. It was rich as hell. The whole system had to be limited to 4 psi with 92 octane fuel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2013, 09:32 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 28
Posts: 8,662
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 277 Times in 259 Posts
You don't retard the timing with more rpm, boosted or not. Your retard is boost dependent.

I'm not sure why you think rpm should be mentioned with boost retard at all, your initial mechanical advance curve is entirely independent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2013, 10:43 PM
spinn's Avatar
Booty Time, Across the USA
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,344
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
[QUOTE=ap72;1670736]You don't retard the timing QUOTE]

I couldn't understand the rest, or its relevance to anything I posted...

Yes, boosted you want to run a retard like the BTM. The rpm itself does not retard the timing in this case, and I never said it did.

At this point youre being difficult ( a meathead). How many posts did I make to try to explain 1 sentence. Too many. And it was not needed. You should have been able to comprehend the sentence, or explain in detail what you think I said. I have shown pictures of my truck with a BTM in place. I understand the equipment and how it works. We have not discussed this yet. Do you need to?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2013, 11:45 PM
spinn's Avatar
Booty Time, Across the USA
 

Last journal entry: This makes a huge difference
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,344
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
Rpm matters. There is a timing curve that maxes out the mechanical advance at a RPM point. Without a BTM USUALLY you will not start detonating until rpm rise, and you have acquired some timing to the total curve.

Again, Without a BTM you will not even detonate until RPMs rise and you get to a higher timing point in the curve.

Do we need to go there? I did not feel it necessary, but now?

To be fair, AP , you know what is up. I cant figure out what this is about. I have tried my best to lay all the cards out on the table. If you want to discuss

Timing curves at RPM ?
conditions of Load ?
Experiences with forced induction ?

let me know.

Last edited by spinn; 04-28-2013 at 12:04 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2013, 05:19 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 28
Posts: 8,662
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 277 Times in 259 Posts
I think I understand the problem, your referring to the difference in timing at rpm where the mechanical advance curve is active and I'm assuming your talking about rpm where you already have full mechanical advance.

If you compare 1000 rpm to 2500 rpm then yes rpm matters as your timing is much more due to your mechanical advance. If you compare 3000 rpm to 6000 rpm then rpm doesn't matter.

I think we're referring to two different points in the curve. An easy misunderstanding really but one I didn't consider.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advanced Timing Question for built 4.3 S10BlazerBuilt Engine 19 10-21-2012 06:25 PM
Advanced timing 454 turchiac Engine 15 05-15-2012 03:01 PM
New motor wont run unless the timing is way advanced z-adamson Engine 18 03-30-2012 04:12 PM
SBF - Wont run unless timing WAY advanced?? z-adamson Engine 9 01-02-2011 01:11 PM
40 degrees advanced timing to run kleen56 Engine 10 11-08-2010 09:35 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.