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Old 02-14-2008, 07:44 PM
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Timing chain

Well i haven't done one. I know (in theory) the basic out line but if anyone could tell me anything special i should know when replacing the timing chain on my 1979 351M 4x4 4spd. My brother said he thinks i have to pull or loosen my oil pan to get the front cover off.. is this true and if so, is there room to take the oil pan right out?

as always thanks alot
bill C

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Old 02-14-2008, 08:22 PM
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When you get the timing cover gasket set, open it and look to see if it has oil pan end gaskets in it. It can be done with those. The oil pan will come out if you take the motor mounts loose and jack the engine up and put 2x4's between the motor mounts and the frame. If it has a cam gear with plastic teeth definitely pull the oil pan to clean it out. I have done it both ways, and the 4x4 is easier to drop the pan off of.
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:39 AM
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hmm... well its on 36's and has a 5 inch lift lol any suggestions on how i can jack the engine up ( i have a floor jack and basic hand tools) maybe blocks of wood? also if i don't have to take the oil pan off, how do i reseal it to the motor. getting a gasket and goo in there seems next to impossible if the pan is just " tilted" down in the front ? Keep the thoughts coming thanks
Also has anyone ever tried to turn the distributer to meet the new timing mark ( put it out of wack to meet up with the now out of wack crank) if so howd it work and which way do i turn the distributer advance or re.

bill C
tomorrow i got my hands full haha
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:00 AM
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Take off the cover and line up the timing marks on the old sprockets by turning the crank, then replace with new parts on the timing mark.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:03 AM
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Yeah blocks of wood to raise it. You could squeeze silicone between the pan and gasket if you loosen the pan, or at the pan and block mating surfaces, if you don't. You will have to have #1 at tdc compression to set the distributor. Install the chain and gears dot to dot, then turn the crank 1 revolution(crank dot up cam dot up), then you can drop your distributor in with the rotor pointing to #1 on the cap. With #1 plug out hook it back up to the plug wire and ground the spark plug ground lead. Set your balancer to the 10 btdc mark and with the key on engine off, rotate the distributor till #1 plug sparks.
Tighten down the distributor and finish your install job. (change oil and filter, add coolant) etc. When finished turn the key and start it up.

hopefully there are no bent valves.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:11 AM
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Would you happen to know if this motor came with the nylon teeth? i would have thought it was the to two sprockets were both metal. when ordering a new chain set i want to get the double roller. do i just ask for a double roller timing chain an sprocket/gasket kit? anything i need to make sure of? other then lining up the index points.

thanks again
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:21 AM
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Just ask for the double roller and gaskets. I also just thought you might not have to pull the distributor to change the chain set. If not do not loosen the distributor. Just install the chain set as I said including rotating the crank until the dot on the cam is straight up(12 o'clock). take off the distributor cap and look to see if it is pointing at #1(should be a touch after at this point). Your distributor rotation should be counter clockwise. Your timing should be close if you have not moved the distributor at all yet.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:29 AM
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wow i hope theres no bent valves too... One day it was fine next was run for like less then 5 min. and sounded like 7 cylinders. next day wouldnt start and fired intermittently ( barely ) all power is top notch all connections are #1 battery wires plugs cap rotor ign. box cylnoid all new. turns over every time like new!
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "70" Cougar
wow i hope theres no bent valves too... One day it was fine next was run for like less then 5 min. and sounded like 7 cylinders. next day wouldnt start and fired intermittently ( barely ) all power is top notch all connections are #1 battery wires plugs cap rotor ign. box cylnoid all new. turns over every time like new!
Cranks over like normal? With no bump? Like it has compression but just won't light off? If so NO BENT VALVES
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:44 AM
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You Have No Idea How Much I Like To Hear That Haha
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "70" Cougar
You Have No Idea How Much I Like To Hear That Haha
Yes I do. I am a sole proprietor with my own automotive repair shop. I opened up July 31st 2006 with $1.21 in my pocket and a customer base of 17. I now have a customer base of 70 with no advertising. I am just as excited as you are when they crank over like normal with spark and fuel, but won't start from a broken timing belt, or chain. That meens less down time for me waiting on a machine shop.
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Old 02-15-2008, 08:48 PM
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I think that has metal gears, wont know for sure until you open it. Im not sure on a Ford that you need to lower the pan, I know you do on a Chevy. Timing chains are a fairly straight forward job. You will need a puller to pull the damper. As far as bent valves, I dont believe there were any stock modern V8's that were interference engines.
Pull it apart and change the gears and the chain. If you do find plastic gears and they are broken up, you will need to clean out the pan or you will be doing the engine soon
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:42 PM
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Well i went out there and looked the whole thing over again. still not sure about the pan dropping but.. the dist is in good shape. i put the fully charged battery on there pumped her a few times and Vroooom she starts ... frickin weird. it sounds like it's runnin a cylinder or two short but its running! So im gonna try to drive it gentle like to my garage ( bout 4 blocks away ) and start pulling things off. I hope if it starts like that again the small drive wont hurt it. Weird that it ran fine / ran poor / wouldn't run / now runs poor.

thanks
billC
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:06 AM
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OK ... it's been a lot of years, and I am trying to picture all of this in my mind.

351C, 351M, and 400 blocks all had the block extended out the front ... well past the timing chain. If memory serves correctly, there is just a flat plate between the water pump and the extended cylinder block. The front seal is mounted in this same plate, and this plate also includes the flange for the rubber oil pan end seal?





If I'm right, the w/p and other engine accesories, i.e alternator, p/s pump, a/c compressor, fuel pump and the hamonic balancer should be all that need to be removed to get at that plate. It should not be nessecary to jack the engine or disturb the oil pan gasket?

Am I right, guys?

Edit:
I just had a thought on that "no start, start, runs like crap" scenario ... could that be the shear pin on the distributor drive gear doing that? It was pretty common to shear them off, IIRC.
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:10 AM
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That's not entirely odd to me. I get at least 1 like that every month to fix.
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